B5TV.COM

B5TV.COM (http://www.b5tv.com/index.php)
-   B5.world (http://www.b5tv.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
-   -   EpDis: The River Of Souls (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=9885)

vacantlook April 1st 07 21:43

EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for The River Of Souls
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for The River Of Souls

crazyhorse April 2nd 07 03:17

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
I liked it and gave it a B.

I hadn't seen season five when I watched it so was a little confused over the Lochely thing but soon found my feet.

Loved the holosuit scene where she is pleased that her likeness is one of the most rented out but was disapointed to see homophobia take a grip.

No need for her to look pleased then disgusted at the true source of her popularity.

Apart from that,loved it.

Always wanted to see more Soul Hunters :)

RW7427 April 2nd 07 05:07

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
The best part of the whole damn movie is the Love Bat. :D

raw_bean April 2nd 07 10:22

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Always felt to me like a very mediocre episode of B5 padded out to twice the length. Even the worst B5 has the occasional moment of greatness, but with all honesty (and I know this is going to sound like me being snarky and disingenuous, though I'm not) I don't think I've ever actually watched this the whole way through without dozing off. Seriously. Since I got the UK B5 Universe boxset, I've watched the entire B5 universe through three times with friends I've got into B5, and twice on my own, and I may have been tired from watching a marathon of B5 each time I've gotten to RoS but I always drift off somewhere about halfway to two thirds of the way through!

GaribaldisHair April 2nd 07 10:23

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorse (Post 293534)
Loved the holosuit scene where she is pleased that her likeness is one of the most rented out but was disapointed to see homophobia take a grip.

I'm not sure it is particularly fair to accuse Lochley (actually JMS, really) of homophobia. There is a big difference between harbouring an irrational prejudice about gay and lesbian people and finding out that they are renting a likeness of you to have sex with.

RMcD April 2nd 07 11:01

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
I think what disappointed me most was that I wanted to see a movie involving that 2263 B5 crew that was hinted at in Objects in Rest - Captain Lochley, Lieutenant Corwin (surely that should be Commander Corwin by now?), Dr Hobbes, Narn Ambassador Ta'Lon, Centauri Ambassador Cotto, Security Chief Zack Allen, and perhaps a brand new Minbari ambassador to mix things up.. Throw a Soul Hunter in among them, keep the beginning and add a climactic ending, and you'd have a good movie.

The idea was okay, but I think they deliberately set their goals too low when they decided to spend the budget on relatively big-name actors. The direction wasn't inspiring, some (not all) of the effects were poor, and the station sets never looked so ugly. That doesn't mean there aren't some positives to be found in there.. I think Martin Sheen can't help being likeable, and this was the first time I really started to see Lochley as an independent character, rather than just Ivanova's understudy. But the B-plot, the forced humour, the lack of a strong ending, the fact that after the excellent opening it feels less like a movie and more like television than most episodes of B5, all make it difficult for me to enjoy.

crazyhorse April 2nd 07 12:20

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GaribaldisHair (Post 293570)
I'm not sure it is particularly fair to accuse Lochley (actually JMS, really) of homophobia. There is a big difference between harbouring an irrational prejudice about gay and lesbian people and finding out that they are renting a likeness of you to have sex with.

She was happy to hear it was popular then changed her attitude when she found out it was through women.

I'm not accussing JMS of homophobia,the scene wouldn't exist if he was homophobic in my opinion.

She did react to it so I'd have to say she had an issue.

It was just something I picked up on,probably nothing :)

Sindatur April 2nd 07 14:52

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
JMS, I don't think is homophobic in the slightest, Talia and Susa, and Day of the Dead implied Zoe and Lochley were more than friends at one time, Marcus and Stephen posed as husbands, and there was even one or two background scenes of guys having lunch or whatever together that look 'date-like".

I think it was just Lochley's problem.

GKarsEye April 2nd 07 19:32

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

and Day of the Dead implied Zoe and Lochley were more than friends at one time
It did?

Sindatur April 2nd 07 20:38

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GKarsEye (Post 293603)
It did?

Well, it seemed to me at least

Boxie April 3rd 07 01:56

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

and Day of the Dead implied Zoe and Lochley were more than friends at one time
:o I'm afraid that I missed that too....

A_M_Swallow April 3rd 07 02:06

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 293584)
and Day of the Dead implied Zoe and Lochley were more than friends at one time,

I got that they were flat mates but no further than that. What I did pick up was the methods the two women were using to pay for the drugs and partying was less than honourable.

Jan April 3rd 07 03:49

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by A_M_Swallow (Post 293614)
I got that they were flat mates but no further than that. What I did pick up was the methods the two women were using to pay for the drugs and partying was less than honourable.

That was the impression I got, though I thought that there was less emphasis on partying and more on survival. The partying part I thought was probably Zoe's way of softening the memories of what they had to do to survive.

Jan

Galahad April 4th 07 16:44

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
I also got the impression that they were very close... but not necessarily sexually. It's clear Lochley was fond of her flat mate... even if just as a friend... because she still carries the mental baggage from it, all those years later (her security clearance is "Zoe's Dead").

RW7427 April 5th 07 00:07

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
I don't remember seeing Zoe in this movie. :p

crazyhorse April 5th 07 00:20

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
They are talking about the abandoned script,River of Lesbian Love :p

Springer April 5th 07 12:45

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
I think Martin Sheen is excellent in this, he really makes it worth watching. Ian McShane doesn't get enough to do. The holo-brothel plot is fairly weak and I'm not entirely sure how those souls could commandeer the holograms and then have them walk around the station... and the love bat is ridiculously rubbish IMO. The worst of the movies, but with some reddeming moments.

raw_bean April 5th 07 15:23

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
I certainly got a bit of an ambiguous lesbian vibe off Day of the Dead. I do love writing that leaves things like that vaguely undefined. I like not knowing for definite to what extent the two of them were close. As JMS is fond of quoting, "to define is to kill, to suggest is to create."

Conversely River of Souls just felt like 45 minutes of incessant expostitional definition, padded out into a 90 minute movie. I found Martin Sheen fairly insipid, but I'd agree McShane wasn't given enough to do. It's pretty much when he drops out of the story that I always start to doze.

I'm sorry, I sound like a such a bitch. It's only because the best of B5 sets such a high standard that sore thumbs like this one disappoint me so much.

KoshN April 5th 07 16:05

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
I thought TRoS captured the spirit and sense of being in the B5 universe very well, and infinitely better than To Live and Die in Starlight (a.k.a. TLaDiS). Martin Sheen was ~OK~. Ian McShane trashed the movie on the talk show circuit, but I thought he was very good in it, and so were Garibaldi, Zack and Lochley. The holo-brothel stuff seems just a way to show Tracy Scoggins in lingerie, and seems like something that TNT would have requested. As for the love bat, it was priceless when reprogrammed and used on the lawyer.

TLaDiS made me appreciate TRoS movie all the more. It made me look back on TRoS as "the good ol' days, when B5 movies could be good." TRoS, the worst of the movies? Hell no! That dubious honor is reserved for TLaDiS, no contest. Before TLaDiS, I gave TRoS low ratings, 4 out of 10 on IMDb. After TLaDiS, TRoS looks like gold in comparison (upped to 7 out of 10).

GKarsEye April 10th 07 02:46

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Lochley doesn't even have the kind of figure that's particularly flattered by lingerie. I mean, yeah, she's hot, but more like an athlete than a boudoir sex-kitten type of hot.

KoshN April 10th 07 05:03

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GKarsEye (Post 294143)
Lochley doesn't even have the kind of figure that's particularly flattered by lingerie. I mean, yeah, she's hot, but more like an athlete than a boudoir sex-kitten type of hot.

Gotta agree with that.

GaribaldisHair April 10th 07 09:22

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GKarsEye (Post 294143)
Lochley doesn't even have the kind of figure that's particularly flattered by lingerie. I mean, yeah, she's hot, but more like an athlete than a boudoir sex-kitten type of hot.

Yeah ... she was always more sexy when we caught her working out during S5 than in that ridiculous getup.

Boxie April 10th 07 15:08

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

her working out during S5
I wish I could do that trick she does with the chair... :lol: that woman has got some strong arms!

GKarsEye April 10th 07 16:18

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxie (Post 294165)
I wish I could do that trick she does with the chair... :lol: that woman has got some strong arms!

Are you talking about the lifts, where she is in a sitting position, her hands are behind her, and she's lifting her body up and down?

If so, it's an easy exercise. The feet are on the floor so it's not your whole weight. It's a good tricep and chest routine, I do it myself.

KoshN April 10th 07 22:01

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GaribaldisHair (Post 294153)
Yeah ... she was always more sexy when we caught her working out during S5 than in that ridiculous getup.

To me, that look was a combination of trashy and "trying too hard." I think Lochley always looked best when she was "At ease!" (i.e. casual), even when somebody woke her up in the middle of the night.

Boxie April 11th 07 01:38

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GKarsEye (Post 294176)
The feet are on the floor

:eek: You're kidding??? I thought she was lifting her whole body weight... :Dshoot, I can do that!

GaribaldisHair April 11th 07 09:41

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 294188)
To me, that look was a combination of trashy and "trying too hard." I think Lochley always looked best when she was "At ease!" (i.e. casual), even when somebody woke her up in the middle of the night.

... and without her hair pinned back. Man, that was severe.

RMcD April 11th 07 10:20

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 293844)
TLaDiS made me appreciate TRoS movie all the more. It made me look back on TRoS as "the good ol' days, when B5 movies could be good." TRoS, the worst of the movies? Hell no! That dubious honor is reserved for TLaDiS, no contest. Before TLaDiS, I gave TRoS low ratings, 4 out of 10 on IMDb. After TLaDiS, TRoS looks like gold in comparison (upped to 7 out of 10).

Should be interesting to see what KoshN posts when we actually get to the TLaDiS episode discussion..

KoshN April 11th 07 12:11

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GaribaldisHair (Post 294236)
... and without her hair pinned back. Man, that was severe.

Yeah, what worked for Claudia (See closeups when she was in The Great Machine of Epsilon 3. :D ) certainly did NOT work for Tracy. :eek: :( Claudia has softer features that are flattered by the hair pulled back ("peanut") look. Tracy's features are much sharper, more stark, and the hair pulled back look makes her look like, to use somebody else's description, "Skeletor" (sp).
http://www.geocities.com/talin_j/Skeletor.jpg
Hmm, that wasn't the image I was thinking of (which is a guy wearing a green hood, whose face was wasn't a skull, and was made of green metal with more airspaces and sharp edges in it than a skull, ...no not Dr. Doom, not the Green Goblin.). Damn it, I can't think of the character name. Maybe my visual recollection is faulty. <shrug> Maybe I'm morphing it with something from the Transformers. :confused:



Quote:

Originally Posted by RMcD (Post 294239)
Should be interesting to see what KoshN posts when we actually get to the TLaDiS episode discussion..

I'll try to hold back.

Babylon5fan07 April 12th 07 07:51

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
I'm probably in the minority here but I thought this B5 movie was excellent. I agree that Morgan Sheppard played the Soul Hunter episode really really well but of course he played a crazy deranged man but I personally really love the role Martin Sheen did in this movie. It was nice to see a spinoff of the Soul Hunter episode in Season 1. The only other role that Martin Sheen played off better was Robert E. Lee in Gettysburg. GReat Great movie I thought.

GKarsEye April 12th 07 16:09

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

The only other role that Martin Sheen played off better was Robert E. Lee in Gettysburg.
Um...dude... what?

two words: Apocolypse Now

KoshN April 12th 07 20:14

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GKarsEye (Post 294343)
Um...dude... what?

two words: Apocolypse Now

The Dead Zone (1983)

The Final Countdown (1980)

Babylon5fan07 April 13th 07 06:33

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 294364)
The Dead Zone (1983)

The Final Countdown (1980)

I'm sorry I said that Martin Sheen was best in Gettysburg but I just haven't had the opportunity to see the other films just yet. I'm just going on the films that I've seen him in like Spawn, Gettysburg and of course River of Souls. I may even think that he did great in Apocalypse Now but I'm personally raising my bar with Robert E. Lee..IMHO

Galahad April 13th 07 16:56

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 294364)
The Dead Zone (1983)

The Final Countdown (1980)

I loved the Final Countdown, even if the Captain of the ship nearly caused a paradox... purely out of patriotic spirit.

Although that would actually be impossible in our current understanding of time theory because if there is only one universe... it is impossible to change what has already happened... and if there is more than one universe, the events you thought you were altering would in fact be happening in an entirely different universe.

KoshN April 14th 07 05:52

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad (Post 294440)
I loved the Final Countdown, even if the Captain of the ship nearly caused a paradox... purely out of patriotic spirit.

It was a hoot seeing F-14s splash Zeroes.

Elipsis July 14th 08 05:34

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
I gave this a C.

It really wasn't at all interesting. And while it was nice they did something with the Soul Hunter arc there isn't a lot to be excited about in this episode for me. It's cute in places, but it is still my least favorite of the original set of B5 movies.

hypatia July 14th 08 05:56

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Many agree with you on that point, myself included. And they had a good guest star to work with, and completely wasted him. Martin Sheen often plays rather subdued characters, but this one seemed... drugged.

An interesting premise that didn't unfold as entertainingly as I'd have hoped. I'm not sure why, either, but it just didn't seem to stand up to the rest of the series or the tv-movies.

Truth_Seeker July 14th 08 22:56

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
I think that "The River Of Souls" would not be a bad story for an episode.Perhaps one of the reasons why we didn't like it much was that it was decided as a movie so the fans expected more from it.I personally didn't understand why so much prescious time of the film was taken showing that silly bar for virtual sex.

Elipsis July 18th 08 05:03

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth_Seeker (Post 325697)
I think that "The River Of Souls" would not be a bad story for an episode.Perhaps one of the reasons why we didn't like it much was that it was decided as a movie so the fans expected more from it.I personally didn't understand why so much prescious time of the film was taken showing that silly bar for virtual sex.

Probably because it could have worked as a 45 minute episode.

KoshN September 29th 08 18:42

Re: EpDis: The River Of Souls
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Elipsis (Post 325678)
I gave this a C.

It really wasn't at all interesting. And while it was nice they did something with the Soul Hunter arc there isn't a lot to be excited about in this episode for me. It's cute in places, but it is still my least favorite of the original set of B5 movies.

Upon first viewing, it was also my least favorite of:
  • The Gathering
  • In the Beginning
  • Thirdspace
  • The River of Souls
  • A Call to Arms

...but since that time, it's grown on me and I find that I now like it more than Thirdspace. "To Live and Die in Starlight" came along in January 2002 to strongly claim the bottom spot on my list. And no, I don't call the Lost Tales thing a movie; it's more like a couple of tenuously connected B-threads, not even an entire, traditional B5 episode, let alone a "movie." If I was going to rank them all, including Lost Tales, it'd go like this, from best to worst:
  • In the Beginning - A
  • A Call to Arms - A
  • The Gathering - B-
  • The River of Souls - C+
  • Thirdspace - C- (mainly a CGI fest)
  • Babylon 5 - The Lost Tales - Over There - C- (because it was so thin.)
  • Babylon 5 - The Lost Tales - Over Here - D
  • To Live and Die in Starlight - F

I find that at least, The River of Souls looks like a Babylon 5 story (unlike "To Live and Die in Starlight" and to a certain extent Babylon 5 - The Lost Tales.). Also, I think this is one of Scoggins' best performances as Lochley. However, Martin Sheen's character, as Hypatia said, seemed drugged. I also thought the Ian McShane and Richard Biggs did very well in their roles. Not bad.



Quote:

Originally Posted by hypatia (Post 325679)
Many agree with you on that point, myself included. And they had a good guest star to work with, and completely wasted him. Martin Sheen often plays rather subdued characters, but this one seemed... drugged.

An interesting premise that didn't unfold as entertainingly as I'd have hoped. I'm not sure why, either, but it just didn't seem to stand up to the rest of the series or the tv-movies.

Look at that opening in The River of Souls. THAT'S a B5 story. :D Now, go look at To Live and DIe in Starlight or Babylon 5- The Lost Tales - Over Here. Those two don't stand up to The River of Souls.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth_Seeker (Post 325697)
I think that "The River Of Souls" would not be a bad story for an episode.Perhaps one of the reasons why we didn't like it much was that it was decided as a movie so the fans expected more from it.I personally didn't understand why so much prescious time of the film was taken showing that silly bar for virtual sex.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elipsis (Post 325891)
Probably because it could have worked as a 45 minute episode.

No, that was just the B-thread, the minor story, and so it's traditional B5, plus, it's funny.


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:17.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2008 B5TV.COM