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-   -   EpDis: Thirdspace (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=9868)

vacantlook March 26th 07 16:00

EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for Thirdspace
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for Thirdspace

Lousy_Dodgers March 27th 07 01:19

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
It was alright though not up to the standards of ItB or CtA. I just wonder what those anti-life aliens did to pass the time for all those thousands of years when the gate was closed. They must be wicked Solitaire players...

Ranger1 March 27th 07 01:43

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
for me thirdspace is the worst thing to have ever come out of the mind of JMS. utter failure.

RW7427 March 27th 07 02:07

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Entertaining, but not up there with the likes of ItB.

Lousy_Dodgers March 27th 07 05:40

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger1 (Post 292935)
for me thirdspace is the worst thing to have ever come out of the mind of JMS. utter failure.

No, that would be Byron.

Thirdspace had its moments though:

Lyta and Zack in the elevator

Vir saying "Why are you hitting me?"

Sheridan nuking something yet again...I wonder if as President he kept a stash of nukes on Minbar for when diplomacy did not work.

Ranger1 March 27th 07 06:04

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lousy_Dodgers (Post 292956)
No, that would be Byron.

Thirdspace had its moments though:

Lyta and Zack in the elevator

Vir saying "Why are you hitting me?"

Sheridan nuking something yet again...I wonder if as President he kept a stash of nukes on Minbar for when diplomacy did not work.

i stand corrected, i thought i had purged the horror that was byron from my mind, but you brought the flashbacks flooding back. some people never got over 'nam, or the time their band opened for nirvana, i never got over byron. but true enough thirdspace did have a moment, lyta and zach in the elevator, tie that in with the rest of the zach\lyta\byron stuff and it only gets sadder, i always felt for him over that, i think it was a lot like marcus and susan, except that lyta never seemed to notice the way zach looked at her or treated her.

RMcD March 27th 07 08:23

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
It does a much better job than ItB of capturing the B5 spirit, and it's better at playing to B5's strengths (the characters and the effects), so I think it's the better movie (after watching it for the first time my brother decided it was the best instalment of B5 to that point).

As it doesn't impinge too much on the main story, I also think it's one of the best starting points for people new to B5. My only real complaint is that the filler material - that interminable scene with Zack and Lyta in the elevator, which was written during the production to fill the time, and all those staged fights in the Zocalo, weren't especially well integrated.

And at the end, when Sheridan sums up and says something like 'the main thing is everyone's okay,' his definition of 'everyone' doesn't seem to extend to all the maintenance techs, IPX employees, Starfury pilots and Whitestar crews we saw getting killed during the movie. Also I wish Netter Digital had spent more time doing effects for early season 5, and less doing post on Thirdspace, because I believe they were still working on it well into S5's production.

Otherwise it's great. A- :) :)

KoshN March 27th 07 15:13

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
From memory: On the low end of C (Average), C- to D+. Story seemed very thin, like it was 44 minutes of content stretched to cover 88 minutes. Some bad acting (Shari Belafonte). Bad fight scene between Ivanova and Trent, didn't sell it, obvious misses, needed better sound effects in the fight scene. GREAT CGI effects. I was unable to suspend disbelief when the alien was revealed. Looked like CGI/cartoonish. I thought the Shadow Soldier in The Long Dark was done better, i.e. less is more. Lack of follow-through on the final moments of the gate, no wide shot, which I think it needed..

KoshN March 27th 07 15:19

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranger1 (Post 292935)
for me thirdspace is the worst thing to have ever come out of the mind of JMS. utter failure.

Good grief, no. It's not worse that To Live and Die in Starlight, or did you forget that one. Mindwipe involved?

KoshN March 27th 07 15:35

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lousy_Dodgers (Post 292956)
No, that would be Byron.

Thirdspace had its moments though:

Lyta and Zack in the elevator

Vir saying "Why are you hitting me?"

The comedy worked.

Sheridan, "Can you swing by and pick me up on your way in?"
Delenn, "Of course, in the fullness of time."
Sheridan, "And how long is that? This isn't funny Delenn."
Delenn, "Yes it is."
Sheridan, "Oh, no it isn't!"


Zack, "Well, maybe it is for the best. Three dates and I probably would have married her."

Zack, "Maybe there is just a lot of full moons out there, somewhere, lined up, beaming bozo rays into everybody's brains."

crazyhorse March 27th 07 16:49

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Well I'll get pelters but this was my favourite film.A good action packed Sci Fi film.The fact that there was all the background on the characters helped but as a film I think this one worked the best.

Then again I do love kick ass space battles and I think the one in this movie is superb.For some reason the Thirdspace aliens made me think of Cthulhu and maybe that struck a nerve too.

Big A from me :)

vacantlook March 27th 07 17:09

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Yeah, there is a definite, enjoyable Lovecraftian-ness to Thirdspace.

puzzle March 28th 07 20:28

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Reminds me of an adaptation of a silly old joke:

Quote:

# thirdspacer has joined #firstones

<thirdspacer> ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

<shadow> don't paste perl in here

# thirdspacer was kicked from #firstones by vorlon
(With all due apologies to people who write in Perl - it's not a bad language, it's just that great evil can be done with its syntax. ;) I'll go fetch my flameproof suit now. :D )

GaribaldisHair March 29th 07 12:42

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
This must be some new usage of the word "joke" that I am unfamiliar with ...

:p

puzzle March 29th 07 14:26

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
It does rely on multiple references, which could be its downfall as a joke.

You need to know something about Perl (like what kind of syntax is possible in that language). Then you'll understand why Cthulhu trying to communicate over IRC might be mistaken for someone pasting Perl. And finally you need to know about "what's the best programming language" flamewars, which have the regularity and temperament of Shadow wars, a thousand times their frequency and lack the casualties only because weapons of mass destruction tend to be unavailable. :p

If you know the background, you may find it quite fun. I did... but perahps I have a silly sense of humor. :)

RMcD March 29th 07 16:28

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
I'd like to know what a Cthulhu is...

Recoil March 29th 07 17:43

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RMcD (Post 293256)
I'd like to know what a Cthulhu is...

Seriously, have you people never heard of Google? Or Wikipedia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu

KoshN March 29th 07 17:50

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RMcD (Post 293256)
I'd like to know what a Cthulhu is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_5:_Thirdspace

Recoil's wasn't there when I started my reply

RMcD March 29th 07 18:46

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Of course I wikipedia'd it immediately after posting, but then couldn't be bothered to edit the post (damn Wikipedia for taking all the mystery out of my life :) ). I didn't know about the connection to Thirdspace, though.

Jade Jaguar April 1st 07 07:08

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorse (Post 293010)
For some reason the Thirdspace aliens made me think of Cthulhu and maybe that struck a nerve too.

Big A from me :)

That's exactly why I gave it a C.

KoshN April 1st 07 19:37

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RMcD (Post 292973)
And at the end, when Sheridan sums up and says something like 'the main thing is everyone's okay,' his definition of 'everyone' doesn't seem to extend to all the maintenance techs, IPX employees, Starfury pilots and Whitestar crews we saw getting killed during the movie.

Good point.

I rewatched Thirdspace twice yesterday. You're right, it does capture the spirit of B5, but so do all the rest of the B5 movies except the Rangers pilot.

It also seems unlikely that Sheridan would even be alive after the explosion, shrapnel and radiation effects. He was protected only by his spacesuit, yet Thirdspace ships near him were utterly destroyed by the explosion. He was merely thrown clear. Doesn't make a whole lotta sense. Other than that, and the problems I mentioned in Post #8, it wasn't too bad. I still don't care for how the Thirdspace aliens turned out, but they're not quite as bad as I remember. Seems like there are some plot holes there. If they could manipulate matter and transport themselves at will, grow appendages, etc., why couldn't they block the hole at the rear of the artifact and prevent Sheridan's escape? Why couldn't they materialize themselves on the outside of the hole, instead of just trying to reach Sheridan through the hole? Why was the hole even there, other than it was required by the plot? Did the Vorlons make it when they built the gate, or when they tried to destroy the gate? Still, the acting from the series regulars and most of the supporting cast was quite good, and the battle CGI was incredible. I'm upping it to a solid C.

Springer April 5th 07 11:41

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
I thought the SFX for the aliens and the artefact were pretty cool, less impressed with the actual battle (that's Netter Digital for you) and I'm amazed that after this, the shadow war and the Earth war that B5 had any starfuries or white stars left! That aside, this is quite a fun movie to pass the time, if a bit forgettable (but then I guess the characters had the same problem as they all vowed to forget it ever happened too...)

I'd give it a B. Not as good as ITB or Call to Arms, but still decent enough.

Babylon5fan07 April 12th 07 06:45

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
As a B5 movie to keep the show sailing it's a B but for a horror film that deals with the B5 crew then I give it an A+ One of the creepiest movies I have ever seen but of course the creepies of all the B5 films and episodes alike.

I still enjoyed this movie but ranks #5 out of all the movies.

KoshN April 14th 07 05:22

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon5fan07 (Post 294313)
As a B5 movie to keep the show sailing it's a B but for a horror film that deals with the B5 crew then I give it an A+ One of the creepiest movies I have ever seen but of course the creepies of all the B5 films and episodes alike.

I didn't find it horrific or creepy. <shrug>

Babylon5fan07 April 14th 07 05:31

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 294493)
I didn't find it horrific or creepy. <shrug>

Maybe horrific or creepy isn't the word perhaps just very dark. But that's the beauty of fans there's something for everyone..still thought it was a good B5 movie though

Alex

KoshN April 14th 07 06:02

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon5fan07 (Post 294495)
Maybe horrific or creepy isn't the word perhaps just very dark. But that's the beauty of fans there's something for everyone..still thought it was a good B5 movie though

Alex

When I think of horrific or creepy, I think of "Alien."

vacantlook April 14th 07 08:26

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
To me, Thirdspace very much was a B5-goes-Lovecraftian. It wasn't as dark as a typical Lovecraftian story, but that's because it was told within the B5 framework. I wonder what a story by jms would be like if he went full-tilt Lovecraftian. (You know, I really should one of these days actually read some of Lovecraft's work.)

crazyhorse April 15th 07 05:50

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Lovecraft is excellent.

The main differance between HP and this is that everyone seems to live.In Lovecraft mythology you are lucky to survive never mind keep the marbles rolling :)

VL there is several good complanations out there,get stuck in,you wont be disapointed.

glamourweaver May 4th 07 09:07

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
The movie on its own had its ups; but I don't consider it part of continuity myself. Its simply to massive to have believably simply slipped through there between the end of the Shadow War & the liberation of Earth without any repurcussions.

KoshN May 4th 07 14:29

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorse (Post 294622)
Lovecraft is excellent.

The main differance between HP and this is that everyone seems to live.

Tell that to Bill Morishi (the guy Dr. Trent shot in the back), the ones who got killed in the fight on B5 or the ones who got killed in the space battle. Not everyone lived. Every one of the B5 main cast lived, but that was necessary because this was stuck in the middle of Season 4, and you can't kill off somebody (i.e. 100% dead*) and then have them show up in the next episode of the chronology. ;)

*Ivanova in "Space, Time and the Incurable Romantic" is a different case. That's not the original Ivanova.

hypatia May 4th 07 16:10

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Still, that is a pretty big difference. I like one friend's theory about how book 7 of Harry Potter will end. "They all get on the Night Bus, and it explodes." :lol: ;)

Seriously, though, JKR had her deaths planned for very major characters early on in her storytelling.

I'd guess that's harder to pull off with television. Let's face it, folks, fans are very distraught after their favorites have been killed off. Some even stop watching the show. So perhaps television has to be a little less cavalier about it than literature.

Elipsis December 18th 07 16:41

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
We just watched this approximately chronologically where it should be in the S4 story.

First off, the special FX are just fucking gorgeous. They really came a long way throughout the series in improving detail and quality of their graphics, and it really shows here.


The story itself, though only loosely related to anything else in the main series, stands on its own as good. Not amazing or gripping by any means, but solidly entertaining and as appropriately epic as the first* B5 movie ought to be.

I also enjoyed the huge scene between Zack and Zack in the elevator. Quite amusing and not the kind of thing you'd have time to do at length in a 45 minute haul.

It's always risky to play the "well, the Vorlon Shadow threat was kinda bad, but here's an even bigger one" card, but they introduced it well.


I found it cool that they worked in all the abilities from the first ones into a single race

-Weird cloaking invisible power (Shadows)
-Telepathy (Vorlons)
-Energy Drain Technology (Sigma 957 Aliens)


I would've liked a better explanation as to where the fuck they came from. If B5 takes place entirely in the Milky Way, were they simply from beyond our galaxy? The usage of the word "universe" confuses me here.


I really liked the scene where the white star is just plowing firepower into this thirdspace ship, which just calmly turns and fires at the whitestar before taking any damage.

Would give it an A, but they never did anything with the story, and tended to dismiss the "a few thirdspace ships / aliens are now wandering around our galaxy" line.

Also, all the fighting and why certain people were mind controlled and others weren't... was never really properly explained or even noticed by any of our characters... and I don't like getting hit that hard in the face by unexplainable plot devices.

vacantlook December 18th 07 17:36

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Elipsis (Post 313720)
I also enjoyed the huge scene between Zack and Zack in the elevator. Quite amusing and not the kind of thing you'd have time to do at length in a 45 minute haul.

Is "between Zack and Zack" a typo, or a joke referencing the conversation being so one-sided? :D I like that scene a lot too. And to think that the scene wasn't originally in the script, having been written to be added when they realized they were coming in short.

Quote:

I would've liked a better explanation as to where the fuck they came from. If B5 takes place entirely in the Milky Way, were they simply from beyond our galaxy? The usage of the word "universe" confuses me here.
I thought it was sufficiently stated that they were from an alternate dimension.

Elipsis December 18th 07 18:20

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vacantlook (Post 313722)
Is "between Zack and Zack" a typo, or a joke referencing the conversation being so one-sided?

The latter.

Glad someone noticed.

Truth_Seeker March 27th 08 18:37

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
This is my favourite B5 movie because it shows the psychology of the Vorlons.Millions of years ago it was not enough for them to be one of the major powers in the galaxy.They wanted to become Gods and the Universe punished them for their arrogance.This reminds me of the phrase that Sheridan said to Kosh:"Wait, I know what you think you are, what you want us to believe. But I don't buy it."

Alluveal March 28th 08 16:05

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
I like Thirdspace a LOT. As a matter of fact, I'd love to see it remastered visually (with the same uberness of Lost Tales) just to watch it again my big screen. It was very creepy and it had the feel of something older, darker and more sinister than anything in the B5 galaxy--first ones, shadows, vorlons, pshah! Whatever it was in Thirdspace just creeps me right out.

maneth March 28th 08 16:40

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Yeah, me too. I'd just love to see those FX rendered with today's tech. They would look even more stunning than they already do. Still, the story gets to me every time, and the implications if those things were let loose are really something.

Alluveal March 29th 08 02:40

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Yeah, there is something almost "Event Horizon" about it.

Cell April 9th 08 22:26

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
Just watched this yesterday after not having seen it for a little while. A fun ride throughout. I especially loved the designs of the alien ships and the aliens themselves. It wasn't a real thinking man's movie, but that's fine, because not all of B5 has to be that. This was an action adventure flick that flew by because of how fast paced it was, and it was done well. It had its flaws, such as Belafonte, but it still deserves a B.

Lennier's Tears March 4th 15 02:33

Re: EpDis: Thirdspace
 
I just watched Thirdspace for the first time in quite a few years ... Well, it was the first time in a while that I watched the whole movie, anyway. I have combed through it more recently to get some scenes to use as illustration of the "evil archaeologist" trope. :p

It wasn't nearly as terrible as I remembered it. "Evil/clueless archaeologist + dangerous artifact = Oh gods, we're all going to die!" plots tend to immediately trigger my eyeroll reflex, but this isn't the worst execution of that type of story I've ever seen. The "artifact" looks pretty cool, at least. And the completely new, weird alien ships are pretty cool ... Other than that it's mostly just a non-arc episode that goes on for a long time.

Sheridan gets to nuke something again. Kind of amazing he's still able to procreate after all that. I had to laugh at that bit where he's just floating in space in his spacesuit, amidst a giant battle.

The "oh hey, all's well that ends well" at the end bothered me too. Um, a whole bunch of people just died. And your ships are seriously damaged. You're going to need those to go up against Earth ... And how are you going to replace all those dead pilots?

Biggest laugh of the movie is Ivanova saying they've carbon dated the artifact and found it's over a million years old. But, let's be generous and assume that there's a dating method in the 23rd century Babylon 5 universe that is called "carbon dating", but that is nothing at all like what we call carbon dating in the real world 21st century.


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