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-   -   EpDis: In The Beginning (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=9823)

KoshFan May 13th 09 04:14

Re: EpDis: In The Beginning
In "To Dream in the City of Sorrows," Sinclair is quite suspicious of Ulkesh, and as we see him drafting his famous message to Garibaldi, he carefully phrases his "Stay close to the Vorlon" line on the principles of "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."

Did Sinclair know Kosh was dead? There were broad hints they were close, in Sinclair's role as Valen, and he may have trusted Kosh a great deal; if he didn't know Kosh was dead (and the Army of Light was playing it very close to the chest) then he might have realized that the Vorlons would run wild without Kosh's moderating influence, but felt Kosh would keep them in line and thus gave no warnings.

Galahad May 13th 09 06:55

Re: EpDis: In The Beginning
I think he did know Kosh was dead. I think that is how Kosh knew beyond a shadow of a doubt (pardon the pun) that his number was up... From finding out through his link to Valen 1000 years earlier.

GKarsEye May 13th 09 13:46

Re: EpDis: In The Beginning
If Valen wouldn't let future Minbari know about the war with humans in order to preserve history as he knew it, then it stands to reason he also wouldn't let Kosh know about his death.

Crusader May 18th 09 14:53

Re: EpDis: In The Beginning
Im just now rewatching all of B5. And wacthing this again certain things jump out at me. I kind understand, wanting to do a feature on the Earth-Minbari war but i think they may have missed the mark on this one. There was no real emphasis on SInclair's role, though i understand Michael O'Hare wasn't available for filming, which may explain that. But other things don't sit right, like Sheridan and Franklin going on that mission for peace. Especially as early on in season 2 there is no recognition between the characters, i believe frnaklin even said at one point "I havent seen much of him, but what i have seen i like". It just seems to me this one is trying to hard, leading to a few continuity errors.

And the bit at the end of the film linking this to the War Without End episode, why and how had Sheridan and Delenn been captured by the Centauri?

Jan May 18th 09 15:40

Re: EpDis: In The Beginning
The bit at the end shows when Sheridan 'time flashed' into his older self and he and Delenn were captured on Centauri Prime while trying to rescue their son, David. The time that he flashed into was when David was sixteen years old and under control of the 'keeper' that Londo had left for him in the urn. This is covered in more detail in the Centauri trilogy of books.


KoshFan May 18th 09 15:40

Re: EpDis: In The Beginning
To the first point, we don't actually see Franklin and Sheridan meet in Season 2... and they wouldn't be apt to talk about a secret mission. But Franklin would, of course, like a peace mission -- so when he says that he's liked what he's seen of Sheridan, that actually computes. Yeah, it's mostly a retcon, but whaddya gonna do?

Delenn and Sheridan being captured is covered in the Centauri Prime trilogy of books. That's actually not a retcon, since JMS knew how it was going to play out, wrote it into both War Without End and In the Beginning, and finally handed the story off to the books' author to finally set down on paper.

EDIT: I'd have to get up real early in the morning to beat Jan to an explanation...

Jan May 18th 09 20:46

Re: EpDis: In The Beginning

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 343170)
EDIT: I'd have to get up real early in the morning to beat Jan to an explanation...

Looks like it was just a matter of seconds, though! Anyway, I didn't deal with the Franklin issue and you did so yours was more complete. :)


Crusader May 18th 09 21:05

Re: EpDis: In The Beginning
well thank you both for your replies. :)

vacantlook May 18th 09 22:08

Re: EpDis: In The Beginning
Despite the short specific moments of the events we see in "War Without End" and "In The Beginning", I'd really like to see the entire of the story of what happens on Centauri Prime in the Centauri novel trilogy. I've read them, and liked them (way more than I did the techno-mage trilogy), but I'd still love to see them fully visually depicted.

butlerd November 29th 09 01:35

Re: EpDis: In The Beginning
It was really quite a good movie and definitely the best out of all of them- though I liked "Call To Arms" a lot too. The only major problem that I had with it- and this goes for the Star Wars prequels as well- is that it put some of the major characters together in a contrived manner that defied plausibility when the series hadn't established the background for their prior interaction. If Sheridan, Franklin, and G'Kar had exhibited some previous familiarity with each other when Sheridan came aboard B5 in S2, their interaction with each other during the E-M war wouldn't have seemed so contrived. Also, I thought it was wierd that the Soul Hunter scene from S4's flashback was axed out the scene with Dukhat right before his death. That being said, it was still an interesting chronicle of the E-M war that does a good job tying together the major characters' back stories as referenced in the series. I also really liked how Londo narrated the story and the end when we find out when Londo is telling the story- namely right before his *meeting* with Sheridan and Delenn- previously seen in "War Without End" and before his and G'Kar's death.

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