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-   -   EpDis: In The Kingdom Of The Blind (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=9405)

vacantlook November 14th 06 23:33

EpDis: In The Kingdom Of The Blind
 
Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for In The Kingdom Of The Blind
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for In The Kingdom Of The Blind

RW7427 November 14th 06 23:52

Re: EpDis: In The Kingdom Of The Blind
 
Good stuff. I gave it an A. :D

aajay November 16th 06 18:24

Re: EpDis: In The Kingdom Of The Blind
 
Anything with the regent gets an automatic A from me.
Here is great!

Shaal Mayan December 7th 06 10:59

Re: EpDis: In The Kingdom Of The Blind
 
B good

Galahad December 7th 06 11:33

Re: EpDis: In The Kingdom Of The Blind
 
All I can think of now is E.T.

"I'll be right here!"

Elipsis April 2nd 08 05:36

Re: EpDis: In The Kingdom Of The Blind
 
A B+. This is where things start to pick up again. Were I saved by some terrifying looking force such as Londo was - I would be more scared than having just taken the knife in the gut.

Finally some arc getting kicked up.

Truth_Seeker April 2nd 08 18:45

Re: EpDis: In The Kingdom Of The Blind
 
This episode is a B for me.Byron made his biggest mistake by ordering his people to scan the ambassadors.Until that moment his decisions were good but after that everything was ruined with a single wrong sentence spoken before Council.You can't blackmail entire alien governments that you will reveal their secrets and expect cooperation from them.The only two races responsible for the condition of the telepaths were the Vorlons who created them and the humans who enslaved a part of ther own species.The other races had nothing to do with the problem.The request that Byron made was absurd.I don't think that in the B5 universe there is such a thing as a uninhabited habitable planet.If it's habitable there must be life there.Even if it's not sentient life the telepaths can't simply move there because they will interfere with the evolution on this planet.

Estelyn February 4th 11 19:34

Re: EpDis: In The Kingdom Of The Blind
 
Both plot elements of this episode are arc related and interesting. And both are moving toward darkness.

The Centauri Prime scenes are fascinating as usual. In this case, when the Regent says "not my decision", he's actually right, not avoiding responsibility. Suspense is kept up till we see how he is controlled at the end. Alas, one handsome, seemingly upright Centauri (Jano) shows up only to be murdered - he should have been wearing a red shirt...

G'Kar actually lightens this part of the story with humour - not only the situational comedy of his position as Londo's bodyguard, but with some good lines - including "It's bad luck to die on an empty stomach"! :rommie:

Like Delenn, I do have some sympathy for the telepaths' wish for a world of their own. It would have been a solution, and I wonder if a way could have been found. But the method Byron and his people used defeated the purpose and alienated them further. Even worse, he no longer has the others under control and reaps the fruits of his antagonistic attitude. He's portrayed the normals as enemies, and now the radical members of the group take that to what they see as a logical conclusion.

Byron withdraws his control, Sheridan withdraws his protection, and the catastrophe takes its course.

(I can't help but compare that with the political situation in a certain north African country right now. The majority wants a peaceful change, but there are always radical elements who utilize protest for their own purposes.)

Alioth September 5th 11 08:39

Re: EpDis: In The Kingdom Of The Blind
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth_Seeker (Post 317323)
I don't think that in the B5 universe there is such a thing as a uninhabited habitable planet.If it's habitable there must be life there.Even if it's not sentient life the telepaths can't simply move there because they will interfere with the evolution on this planet.

Not so sure of that--the galaxy is a big, big place, with a trillion stars which would include a few billion Sol-like ones. (The show does makes the galaxy seem like a smaller place than it is, granted, which I may cover in a thread somewhere because it's something that does nag at me a bit, being a huge astronomy afficionado.)


Spoiler for The Technomage Trilogy:

Plus, in the Technomage Trilogy we see that the Shadows did wipe out whole inhabitable planet populations, such as Soom (where Elric and Galen had made their home among a primitive race)--not in this case with planetkillers, just a bunch of the usual battlecrabs (including Anna's) which bombarded and left no survivors. If no members of the races of such planets were left alive elsewhere to resettle their home at the end of the Shadow War, such a planet might be suitable for rehabitation by the Teeps.


There was also the former Markab homeworld.

I also saw their asking for a home world as reasonable given their situation, and while I agree that the blackmail was the wrong tactic (and a gross violation of good faith assumed in their being allowed to inhabit the station), they really weren't given the time of day when they asked for it before presenting the blackmail--which to me sounded like a very reasonable proposal. Maybe he shouldn't have tricked Garibaldi by saying he'd present something else to the council, to gain the audience, but have come right out and said "we need the Alliance's help in finding a permanent place to live". Given the Alliance mission and principles this would I think have been the appropriate entity of which to make the request (and we know Delenn would have thought so too)--but Byron thought the Council would reject the idea out of hand, and it appears he may have been right.

As an aside, I'm not sure why so many here seem to dislike Byron's character (other than perhaps this particular tragic mistake he made). He and his teeps were in a pretty difficult position and I think that, humans that they were, they did pretty much the best they could, as did he--with him having the added burden of his convictions against violence stemming from what the Psi Corps made him do. He came across as somewhat arrogant, but not pathologically so. I understand as a "mundane" myself ( :) ) the fear non-teeps had of the teeps, but the teeps couldn't help what they were, only what they'd do with their gifts. And on that note, the blackmail was a dangerous mistake, but up until that point they certainly weren't exploiting their gifts for advantage over others (and for most of their lives others were exploiting them for their gifts). They largely wanted to be left alone peacefully.

Ironic how the Vorlons, those "lords of order", in their creation of telepaths, actually sowed seeds of conflict (which was probably unavoidable) within the affected races. Couldn't they have foreseen that?

----

(vacantlook edit: I fixed the code for the spoiler tag for you. It's easy to forget the = in the opening tag: [ spoiler=] but it is required, and no other words but "spoiler=" and whatever the spoiler is for in the tag.)

Alioth September 5th 11 09:00

Re: EpDis: In The Kingdom Of The Blind
 
On the Centauri front, knowing (on second viewing, plus having read the Centauri Trilogy) the terrible fate awaiting Londo which the poor Regent was presently enduring, I found the scene of the Regent's exhortation to Londo to "enjoy life, while you have time" and his mournful comment "I'm so sorry" (which Londo had no idea what that meant) to move me almost to tears. The Regent was a kindly old man, and (from what we saw of him before, advising Vir on his reports) probably one of the few real honest men in the Centauri court, although he was a bit flighty. Terrible to see him suffer punishment from Shiv'kala through his keeper for just hinting to Londo what was to come (and really not revealing anything to him). And Londo, after finally starting to become a better man on a path of redemption, would still be damned to the same terrible fate....

Jade Jaguar September 6th 11 00:13

Re: EpDis: In The Kingdom Of The Blind
 
I'm glad to see that someone else has much the same view of Byron and the teeps that I do. :D

Lennier's Tears May 2nd 15 19:35

Re: EpDis: In The Kingdom Of The Blind
 
It only just now occurred to me that Byron's clothes are much more late 20th century-looking than any of the other humans' clothes. I'm guessing he's dressing all retro-like on purpose. I actually quite like his style. Too bad about the arrogance :p

I really don't know why Byron thought it would be a good idea to invade everyone's thoughts and then blackmail them. Did he really think that was going to work, or was he just tired of asking nicely and getting nowhere?

I always kind of assumed that the telepaths asking for a homeworld of their own wasn't that big a deal, surely there'd be lots of planets they could have ... But Sheridan's reaction in this episode, and the discussion upthread makes me now doubt that. Perhaps there aren't all THAT many planets?

It isn't clear to me if this homeworld is supposed to be for HUMAN telepaths or all telepaths. It's possible that that was discussed in some prior episode, but I have forgotten.

I agree with Truthseeker above (and with Lyta in this episode). It's the Vorlons who created the telepaths. They're long gone. It's the Earth government that screwed over human telepaths. It would be entirely appropriate to be angry at them. But, the league ambassadors? Yes, all the league worlds benefited from the telepaths' sacrifice during the telepath war, but that doesn't really have anything to do with anything ... It would make more sense if these human telepaths were aligned with telepaths from other worlds, who may have legitimate grievances with their own governments. We don't really know much about non-human telepaths. Minbari telepaths seem to be doing pretty well ... Centauri telepaths probably not so much (I'm thinking of those poor women who accompany the emperor, and are essentially born into service). We don't really know what is going on with any non-human telepaths.

To directly answer the question of why I dislike the Byron character (and I've probably said this elsewhere, so apologies for the repetition), it's not that I don't think his cause is just, it's mostly just his "eruditer-than-thou" attitude that really rubs me the wrong way. Also the cult leader stuff skeeves me out. I kind of feel like he did to Lyta what he accuses everyone else of doing to Lyta: He exploited her vulnerability to get with her (that might not be entirely fair to her character, but it still sort of feels that way to me).

As for the Centauri storyline ... it's pretty tense, but also kind of funny with the G'Kar stuff in there. I agree with Alioth that the scenes with Londo and the regent are quite moving. I really love the Regent Virini character. I used to have that line from him from this very episode as my signature on a bunch of things ... Perhaps I should use it here too. "I think we are well beyond pastels now". That about sums it up, right there.

I really like all the Centauri characters in this. They are so ... Centauri. Jano especially seems like he's overacting a bit, but it fits with the Centauri character.

Springer May 2nd 15 19:55

Re: EpDis: In The Kingdom Of The Blind
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennier's Tears (Post 451496)
I always kind of assumed that the telepaths asking for a homeworld of their own wasn't that big a deal, surely there'd be lots of planets they could have ... But Sheridan's reaction in this episode, and the discussion upthread makes me now doubt that. Perhaps there aren't all THAT many planets?

I haven't seen this episode in a while, so I may be missing some details, but I think part of the obstacle is the politics that are involved. The telepaths are, according to human law, essentially renegades from Earth. Fellow members of the Alliance can't just ignore that that, not even Sheridan if he wants to work more closely with Earth.

Lennier's Tears May 2nd 15 20:57

Re: EpDis: In The Kingdom Of The Blind
 
Yes, I bet there would be all kinds of interesting and complicated political issues to deal with ... :D

I guess we just don't know enough about how citizenship works in the B5 universe (or maybe that actually is discussed in some book I haven't read and it's just that *I* don't know enough about citizenship in the B5 universe) to speculate on the exact details of such a scenario. Presumably there is some way in which a sentient being can acquire citizenship on an alien planet. The human telepaths wouldn't necessarily have to remain citizens of Earth (or whichever [former] Earth colony they were from), although, as you say, under the terms of the Alliance the other Alliance worlds are presumably required to turn over wanted criminals regardless of citizenship. Presumably. But I also feel like membership in the Alliances requires planetary governments to not oppress their own populations (or certain groups within those populations), so maybe there IS something that could be done within the Alliance framework .. I don't know :p

I'm sure that it is extremely disappointing to lots of people - not just telepaths - that the happy moment of Earth's crooked government being overthrown didn't also include the dismantling of the Psi Corps. Everyone can clearly see that that situation is problematic, but no one wants to do anything about it .. or perhaps they don't know how. It's interesting how the top people in Psi Corps get to be in power by oppressing the telepaths "below" them right along with the mundanes, so there's all these conflicting interests at play. It's what makes Psi Corps such an interesting fictional organisation.


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