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-   -   EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=9387)

vacantlook November 5th 06 19:39

EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for Secrets Of The Soul
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for Secrets Of The Soul

RW7427 November 5th 06 20:18

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
I like this ep. I know it's kinda boring with not a lot of action in it, and yes, there's the fact that not much occurs that is relevant to the overall happenings of season 5, but it's till good nonetheless. The ep gives some interesting history of one of the races of B5, and it helps us know a little more about Stephen Franklin too.

hypatia November 5th 06 21:05

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Did we really learn more about Franklin? He'd already put his career on the line to keep Minbari biological information out of the hands of the military during the Earth/Minbari war.

I do like the episode, though. It reinforces an important aspect of Franklin's personality and past, and it has Lyta finally deciding that mundanes really have treated her like shit.

Sindatur November 6th 06 14:34

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Yea, Lyta starting her turn, I think is what keeps this a solid "B" for me.

Mike G November 6th 06 15:05

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
I gave it an F. I can honestly say, this is the only episode of B5 that I really don't like, and would give below a C. Except for the end, it all seems inconsequential or just plain boring to me.

KoshN November 6th 06 18:25

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Quote:

Yea, Lyta starting her turn, I think is what keeps this a solid "B" for me.

The only memorable part of this episode, for me, was what Lyta reveals of the Vorlons. For that I gave it a B. Otherwise Byron would have dragged it down to a C or D.

Boxie November 8th 06 14:46

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
It was okay, not my favorite episode. :o I just don't care much for Byron... :D He's not my cup of tea!

I am curious about something though, the credits list that Tony Dow directed this episode. Is that Leave it To Beaver's brother, Tony Dow :) or a different Tony Dow?

Sindatur November 8th 06 14:46

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
That would indeed be Wally Cleaver.

Boxie November 8th 06 14:49

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
:D It WAS Wally?? Wow...and thanks, :D I couldn't remember his character's name!! Actually, I remembered the Cleaver part, but the first name just would not come to me... :o

Joseph DeMartino November 8th 06 16:25

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Quote:

The only memorable part of this episode, for me, was what Lyta reveals of the Vorlons.

The memorable part of this episode for me was how much Lyta revealed of herself. :beer: I generally fast-forward to the good parts, then watch it with the sound turned off . :)

Regards,

Joe

We really need a lecherous leer smiley. ;)

deaded November 10th 06 12:44

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
IMHO it was average. There were some really good points, like getting to see a lot of Lyta.

Then there was all that holier than though crap from Franklin. That pissed me off. Who is he to judge a whole race? He gets a twenty minute synopsis of their last thousand years and he passes judgment on their ancestors?? Pffft. Gimmee a break. And Byron made this episode lose another grade point. That makes a C.

I still liked it though.

KoshN November 11th 06 19:07

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Quote:

Quote:

The only memorable part of this episode, for me, was what Lyta reveals of the Vorlons.

The memorable part of this episode for me was how much Lyta revealed of herself. :beer: I generally fast-forward to the good parts, then watch it with the sound turned off . :)

Regards,

Joe

We really need a lecherous leer smiley. ;)

Well, I was trying to take the high road, and we didn't get to see, well anything, really. Guess you must have snuck into the closed set.

Joseph DeMartino November 11th 06 19:17

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Quote:

Well, I was trying to take the high road

Which left the low road to the rest of us. :)

Quote:

Guess you must have snuck into the closed set.

No, but I have a vivid imagination. And a fella can dream, can't he? :D

Regards,

Joe

KoshN November 11th 06 19:29

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
IIRC, there was only one place where Pat revealed anything (topless for a few frames, in the near dark) in Knightriders(1981). Then, there were some scenes where it must have been, well....cold on the set, in Night of the Living Dead (1990).

Check this out:

Freckles

God, I love freckles.

Joseph DeMartino November 11th 06 21:27

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Must have been cold on the Knighriders set, too. :)

http://usera.imagecave.com/jjsherida...ghtriders1.jpg

http://usera.imagecave.com/jjsherida...ghtriders2.jpg

KoshN November 11th 06 22:14

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Joe,

Your post might lead some people (not me) to believe that the pictures you posted were from Knightriders (1981), but in reality they are from Night of the Living Dead (1990).

This is from Knightriders:

http://uplink.space.com/attachments/187027-Patricia.jpg

For Pat's topless pics, see the topic I just posted in NC-17 "Pat Tallman Topless Pic - Knightriders"

Joseph DeMartino November 11th 06 22:42

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Quote:

Your post might lead some people (not me) to believe that the pictures you posted were from Knightriders (1981), but in reality they are from Night of the Living Dead (1990).

The site I found the pictures on labelled them as being from Knightriders. Never having seen that film, and having seen only the beginning of the Night of the Living Dead remake once, many years ago, I was not in a position to spot the error. So I'm glad you could.

Regards,

Joe

KoshN November 11th 06 22:53

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Ya know, I sold my DVD of Knightriders. Didn't much like the movie, and I like and respect Pat far too much to keep it for the topless scene. <shrug> This from a guy who's a dyed-in-the-wool breast man.

Shaal Mayan December 7th 06 12:02

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
B good with Lyta starting to change alligances.The stuff about Franklin I thought was a little uneccessary but entertaining at the same time.

Galahad December 7th 06 12:35

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
It made me wonder if the same thing could happen to the Centauri someday... seeing as they exterminated the Xon.

Chilli September 26th 07 13:12

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Yeck. Pretty massive suck.

Franklin giving holier-than-thou crap to a race for genocide which was commited on its planet 800 years ago? Come on. Like humans had, at that point, not commited genocide in the last 800 years. Franklin just wouldn't be such a tosspot.

I do have to wonder about people, though, that can watch this episode .. and STILL don't believe that Byron is a whiny, hypocritic little shit.

Okay. One of his guys gets attacked in downbelow. He's brought into medlab, Franklin is trying to save him. Franklin asks Byron what happened. Byron, while seeming perfectly composed, gives Franklin something along the lines of ..

"He was attacked. By one of YOU."

Yeah, right. FRANKLIN is to blame. He's a normal, so of course he approves of this kind of stuff. Never mind the part where Franklin was running the underground railroad for years, getting thousands of telepaths out of Psi Corp, doing more for telepaths than Byron ever would do. What a petty little bigot Byron is.

Never mind the complete retardedness of his assertion in the end that the whole universe is to blame for his problems.

GaribaldisHair September 26th 07 15:55

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
I don't think the argument about Byron has ever been whether or not he was a whiny, hypocritical little shit, as he is clearly exactly that. He is also massively paranoid and has a massive chip on his shoulder.

I always felt the point of Byron was to draw the distinction between the fact that he isn't the most likeable of people but that ultimately he does have a point about the way telepaths are treated. Can the audience sympathise with his situation and his cause without liking him?

Me? Yes I could.

vacantlook September 26th 07 21:43

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GaribaldisHair
...Can the audience sympathise with his situation and his cause without liking him?

Me? Yes I could.

I, too. I doubt I could ever be friends with Byron, but that doesn't mean I think he's entirely wrong. I think a lot of people look at Byron and think he's supposed to be the Great Crusader of the telepath resistance plot line, but he's not. He's meant to be what sparks Lyta to become the Great Crusader, and that's about it. The rest of his characterization is left to show us how even those who fight against the Psi Corps can still be screwed up by having been raised/trained by the Corps; the Corps' influence on a person is far-reaching because they, pardon the pun, get into your mind. Also, we have to remember where the story of Byron and his group came from: from jms's time spent as a member of a somewhat freaky religious commune, something he eventually mentally freed himself from and left after some time. The audience isn't really supposed to want to run out and join Byron's group, but see it and realize exactly how screwed up being diseffected from society can make a person, see to what sort of strangeness someone who's desperate for welcoming and belonging will turn to, and how that doesn't necessarily make them a better person.

maneth September 27th 07 07:02

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
It's not my favorite episode, but neither is it my least favorite one.

Elipsis March 27th 08 14:52

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Another C. Extinction of races has been done before (Markab), joint evolution has been done before (Centari). Byron is creepy and I think I'd like to take him up on that 4, 5, and 6 just for the ridiculous lines he delivers in the episodes when he's trying to win Lyta over. (Although that scene is probably his best moment.)

Puttering Peter is a lot like Special Simon, as the only other telepath in the colony that isn't a mute with long hair... you know he's in trouble from the get go. Not a very innovative plot, and aside from the end it does very little for me.

Estelyn February 3rd 11 14:22

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
I agree with what was previously said about Byron's attitude toward normals - he doesn't differentiate between them. So what's the difference between him and those he despises?!

Lyta has become someone I don't much like anymore as well - her need to follow someone is annoying, and her choice isn't very good. I noticed a repeat of the melody of the "all come together" song as an instrumental theme behind her joining Byron's group.

The lack of privacy in the sex scene turns me off completely. The only good part is the revelation of Vorlon manipulation of teeps. However, Byron's anger is misdirected - he lashes out against the normals (again!), since the Vorlons are no longer available.

Zack's concern may be partially caused by jealousy, of course, but he is very sweet in his attitude. Too bad Lyta doesn't see who is really interested in her for her own sake.

The whole Franklin/Hyach plot element is less than gripping. All in all, this episode has little of real interest for me.

Boredom February 3rd 11 16:26

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GaribaldisHair (Post 309382)
I don't think the argument about Byron has ever been whether or not he was a whiny, hypocritical little shit, as he is clearly exactly that. He is also massively paranoid and has a massive chip on his shoulder.

I always felt the point of Byron was to draw the distinction between the fact that he isn't the most likeable of people but that ultimately he does have a point about the way telepaths are treated. Can the audience sympathise with his situation and his cause without liking him?

Me? Yes I could.

A race hustler, Jesse Jackson type.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 367590)
I agree with what was previously said about Byron's attitude toward normals - he doesn't differentiate between them. So what's the difference between him and those he despises?!

Lyta has become someone I don't much like anymore as well - her need to follow someone is annoying, and her choice isn't very good. I noticed a repeat of the melody of the "all come together" song as an instrumental theme behind her joining Byron's group.

The lack of privacy in the sex scene turns me off completely. The only good part is the revelation of Vorlon manipulation of teeps. However, Byron's anger is misdirected - he lashes out against the normals (again!), since the Vorlons are no longer available.

Zack's concern may be partially caused by jealousy, of course, but he is very sweet in his attitude. Too bad Lyta doesn't see who is really interested in her for her own sake.

The whole Franklin/Hyach plot element is less than gripping. All in all, this episode has little of real interest for me.

Will there be a Telepath War down the line? Wonder who the telepath face will be? Bester or Byron?
Bester is an object of resentment, so I guess if it's Bester, it will be telepaths defending themselves.
On the other hand, Byron is a walking resenment, and he may provoke the war the way Osama did.

JoeD80 February 4th 11 23:02

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 367590)
The lack of privacy in the sex scene

Intentional to the story, to show that the telepaths in this group have dropped all barriers. Remember, the members of this group don't even attempt to block out thoughts of others (see the scene where Garibaldi walks in and Byron already knows everything he's about to say). Why would there be any privacy during sex? These people have chosen a different way to live, even different from most telepaths.

Jade Jaguar February 7th 11 05:46

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 367590)
I agree with what was previously said about Byron's attitude toward normals - he doesn't differentiate between them. So what's the difference between him and those he despises?!
.

Well, he did quit Psycorps out of disgust at killing normals, is non-violent, doesn't want to kill normals. But Psycorps, that he despises, and many normals, want to kill him and his band. There is that difference.

Lennier's Tears March 18th 15 00:19

Re: EpDis: Secrets Of The Soul
 
I think this is a fairly average episode. Byron actually doesn't annoy me that much in this one. He isn't overly arrogant and condescending in any of the conversations he has, except perhaps early on at customs where he asks Zach "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" and then goes on about that for a bit. Yes, we get it, you're very erudite.

Really, he makes a LOT of sense in this episode. He loses me only at the very end, where he decides that all of the mundanes on all of the worlds the Vorlons messed with are to blame for the suffering of the telepaths and need to feel his wrath. As though the Vorlons didn't manipulate EVERYONE. I can totally see why any telepath would be distrustful of mundanes in general, because of everything that's been done to them as a group. But that is quite a leap there, Byron. And, what exactly would you have done if the Vorlons weren't gone? Attack their homeworld?

Incidentally, why DO all the telepaths wear black? Is it just so that it's easier for the audience to spot them when we don't know all of their faces? Or is there a reason for it in the story? Like, they're all in mourning until they get their own world, sort of thing? It's weird, because despite the obvious cult-like qualities of that group, they don't seem to be the type to suppress individuality.

The interesting thing about the telepath storyline, I think, is that we, the viewers, are all mundanes. The story makes us sympathize with the telepaths, but we'll always be mundanes and can't view it from any other perspective.

The Hyach-Doh story is alright, even if it doesn't matter much for the overall storyline. I do find the "everyone has to share their medical information for the alliance" story interesting. I'm sort of surprised that the Hyach representative and aide take Franklin's word for it when he says he'll die before he gives away their secrets. We, the audience, can believe it easily enough, since we know about Franklin's background, but these Hyach don't know that. On the other hand, they had their orders, so it doesn't really matter what they believe. Franklin does seem a bit self-righteous about things (it comes natural to him :p ), but he's angry about the secrecy, he isn't holding these particular Hyach responsible for the genocide committed by their ancestors. I think that's reasonable enough.


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