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-   -   EpDis: Learning Curve (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=9342)

Chilli September 27th 07 09:38

Re: EpDis: Learning Curve
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by A_M_Swallow (Post 309444)
Marcus dated Number One and spotted the creature on Captain Jack's shoulder.

Er .. no.

Franklin dated Number One, while Number One sent Marcus off to "stand guard" - to be out of the way.

Galahad September 27th 07 10:52

Re: EpDis: Learning Curve
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilli (Post 309457)
Er .. no.

Franklin dated Number One, while Number One sent Marcus off to "stand guard" - to be out of the way.

That's what makes the scene so funny. Marcus is completely aware of what she's up to. I keep having to wind back every time Marcus turns round with the "50 credits" jibe, it just cracks me up

wish i could find it on youtube..

Cell April 5th 08 02:43

Re: EpDis: Learning Curve
 
I'm in the process of watching through all of B5/Crusade/LOTR yet again, and I just came upon this episode. Man oh man, I had forgotten just how bad this episode makes the Rangers, the IA and maybe even JMS out to be. This whole idea of circumventing the local authorities, the law, and justice for the idea of revenge through terror is quite sad indeed.

The Rangers are supposed to be a peace keeping force, the guardians of the light in the galaxy that is the IA. But in this episode they go above the law to inflict revenge and terror upon a man, and they crack jokes as if their actions are quite cavalier while partaking in their atrocious actions. Now, sure, the man was not a good man and he had beaten the Ranger nearly to death. However what should separate the Rangers from your common thug or fascist zealot is their ability to enforce the peace through the law and the true tenets of justice. Instead they do the exact opposite and take on the persona of Nazi Germany's SS in the process. This episode doesn't make the Rangers honorable or endearing in any way, instead it paints them as terror mongers, willing to exact their own idea of revenge upon the populace in whatever manner they see fit. Fairness doesn't matter, the law doesn't matter, justice doesn't matter, due process doesn't matter, and in the end because they are willing to do this the Rangers lose a lot in my eyes.

This takes us to Delenn, who not only goes along with the Mora'Dum, but pulls rank to make sure it is enforced. Are we really supposed to believe that a character that has spent the better part of the last 10 years doing everything in her power to show people the mistake of enacting revenge would now do the same? This is the same character that shouted for revenge upon the death of Dukhat and then realized the error of her ways and cried out that the needless death and seeking of revenge stop. Despite building that very important facet into her character here we have her going against all of that and seeking for revenge right away and hiding behind laws and tradition to make sure that revenge is meted out.

JMS on the other hand tries to hide behind the message he has put forth with the clumsy Garibaldi scene in the station house with Zack at the end of the show. His whole "The Minbari do this and then this and then this" is a very vein attempt at somehow justifying their actions throughout the episode. I fully believe in the SS comparison that I put forth earlier, and one must wonder if this is how JMS views the ultimate police force as actually working? Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge JMS fan, but I can't help but balk at his apparent idea of how the Rangers should work, and honor and justice. If it had been one or two Rangers that think this way then that I could buy, beings will be beings after all, but to have it built in as a group standard and to have it presented as good thing is not something I can get behind. All this episode did was paint the Rangers, Delenn, and the IA in a bad light and it's quite shocking in how bad of a light it put them in.

Estelyn February 3rd 11 12:21

Re: EpDis: Learning Curve
 
A lot has been said about the questionable aspects of this episode, and I must admit to being of two minds about it. Despite the fact that administration of justice should not take the form used by the Rangers, there's something in me that cheers when the bully is proven to be a coward when faced with a courageous opponent alone.

I do enjoy the bantering conversations between the two senior officers - it's nice to see members of two different castes aware of their differences but not battling each other. And it's fun to see the young Ranger (Tannier?) smile over that - we so seldom see Minbari smiling.

The contrast between Sheridan, whose military position was strongly influenced by his political opinions, and Lochley, who adheres strictly to the chain of command, is clearly defined without being judged. Is one position more meritorious than the other? I can understand Sheridan better, but then I'd not like to be part of a military structure.

I do like Delenn's clarity in seeing the possibilities for a purpose for Pak'ma'ra Rangers.

There is a good deal of psychological wisdom in facing one's terror/fear as soon as possible, aside from the method used here. And the philosophical question raised, ln the worth of death with or without reason or meaning, is an interesting one.

One additional detail - we are getting a hint of Lennier's future actions in the report of his overactivity in training. I do like it when clues are dropped over a period of time, then solved later on!

No, this episode isn't a favourite of mine, but still worth watching.

Lennier's Tears March 8th 15 02:47

Re: EpDis: Learning Curve
 
Ehh, it's not a great episode, but it's OK ... It has some obvious problems, but it's entertaining enough.

I'm a big fan of Puzzle's huge post on the first page of this thread :) That's a pretty detailed analysis of the legalities involved with the Ranger storyline here. I agree with the people who said that it seems out of place for Delenn to override station command/security so that one Ranger trainee can experience the "terror" part of his training. It makes perfect sense for the Minbari to have such a thing in their training, because, well, they're Minbari, and everything is full of ritual. But, even Delenn expresses in this very episode the sentiment that Rangers are no longer just Minbari, and perhaps the training should be adjusted to better accommodate other races. Still, we're going to take over your station here for a second so this one guy can face his terror.

The actual execution of that part is entertaining enough for me. I enjoy the back and forth between the Ranger teachers.

Something I thought was interesting, and which I never really thought about before: All the Ranger trainees we see in this episode are wearing Ranger pins. Does that mean that one becomes a Ranger as soon as one is accepted to Ranger training? There is no "graduation" ?

About that scene where Garibaldi and Lochley get into it in the mess hall: I think it makes sense for Garibaldi to be so distrustful. That's entirely in character. It also fits with the general Babylon 5 feel that there's no black and white in their disagreement. I do find their frequent arguing a bit annoying. I don't get why so many people applaud when Lochley gives her speech and walks out. THEY all broke away from Earth. I don't see any of them back in the Earth Force uniform. She just said that the people who broke away from Earth sacrificed either loyalty, duty, or honor. Why would you applaud someone saying that about you?

I'm not a fan of the "Sheridan and Lochley had a previous relationship" story, which is still only hinted at here. And how did this not come up before in any conversations between Sheridan and Delenn? Did they never discuss why Sheridan picked Lochley for the B5 command?


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