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-   -   EpDis: A View From The Gallery (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=9321)

Joseph DeMartino October 8th 06 18:21

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Quote:

Some particulars would be nice. A hint. A rumor. A legend.

Why? :) Who cares? ;) The story isn't about them.

OK, let's say "some particulars would be nice." But that isn't what you're saying. You're saying "This episode sucks because it is missing those particulars." I would submit that this need to have every "T" crossed and "I" dotted is your problem, not the episode's. There is nothing dramatically invalid about what JMS did, you just don't find it personally satisfying. And "This is not to my personal taste" is not the same thing as "This is objectively bad".

Regards,

Joe

Jan October 8th 06 21:03

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
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And "This is not to my personal taste" is not the same thing as "This is objectively bad".

:beer: AMEN!

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I gave it a D (Poor) and I thought that was being charitable. It was pure filler, like they had to crank out an episode and nobody could think of anything, so they threw together this padding piece.

Uh-huh. Like a story with both JMS and Harlan Ellison's names on it was because nobody could think of an idea for an episode?! Yeah, right.

It's common to read sentiments like the above with the stand-alone stories and with the off-format stories and this episode is both. Generally, you hear it from the arc-addicts who think that anything that doesn't further the arc is 'filler'. Not saying that's your stand, KoshN, just that its something I read regularly.

I love it for the characters and for the different point of view. But then, I generally love the off-format episodes. I like when JMS tlits things sideways. ;)

Jan

KoshFan October 8th 06 21:16

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
My only objection to this ep is that the aliens came out of nowhere, in sufficient force. The show was so great at foreshadowing otherwise that this exception rankles me far more than it otherwise should. They couldn't have mentioned some missing ships somewhere, the ep before? Or alluded to clean-up afterwards?

In any other sci-fi show, this wouldn't matter in the slightest... but the standard for continuity had been set very high, so something like this seemed a little flat. B5 occasionally suffers from its own greatness.

But as I said, that was the ep's only weak point.

Jade Jaguar October 9th 06 02:24

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
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Really, they're just throwaway aliens, an overall background/overall event to tie together the "Mack & Bo wander about the station." episode.


Or, as I said, generic aliens, as a backdrop for Mack and Bo. That IS the point. It doesn't matter who they are, and where they came from, it's all the same to Mack and Bo, it's always the same to Mack and Bo, and this ep is their view of the station. The details you want don't matter, would be out of place, and alter the intended focus of the ep. If you don't like what the ep was trying to do, or don't think it succeded, fine. But changes that run counter to its purpose would be pointless.

hypatia October 9th 06 02:37

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
I wonder how many people don't like this episode because it's not focussing on "the important characters".

And again, that's what I liked about it. But I know it's not to everyone's taste.

I think the season 5 EpDis's are going to prove a bit more argumentative than they have in the past. :lol:

Which is fine: season 5 is a controversial season. :)

GaribaldisHair October 9th 06 08:28

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
I have always thought that this episode works better because we know nothing about the aliens. If the attack had come from a source that we already knew, our viewpoint of it would be "tainted" by that knowledge ... this ep is about, and written from the point of view of, two guys who don't have any of that knowledge. This puts us in the same mindset as them in working through what is going on.

If it had been the Drakh, for example, we would already have an idea of what their motivation was, who they were, where they came from and what their agenda might be. Mac and Bo wouldn't know that.

By introducing new, one-shot, aliens for this episode, it helps us to view this episode from their point of view ... which I always assumed was the point.

And as has already been pointed out, we didn't get any foreshadowing, or aftermath, about the probe in 'A Day In The Strife' - the introduction of one-shot aliens is not even new.

KoshN October 14th 06 16:39

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Quote:

I have always thought that this episode works better because we know nothing about the aliens. If the attack had come from a source that we already knew, our viewpoint of it would be "tainted" by that knowledge ... this ep is about, and written from the point of view of, two guys who don't have any of that knowledge. This puts us in the same mindset as them in working through what is going on.

If it had been the Drakh, for example, we would already have an idea of what their motivation was, who they were, where they came from and what their agenda might be. Mac and Bo wouldn't know that.

By introducing new, one-shot, aliens for this episode, it helps us to view this episode from their point of view ... which I always assumed was the point.

It doesn't have to be an alien race that <u>we've</u> heard of before. It could have been about one-shot aliens that we've never heard of before, but that <u>the main characters</u> did know something about.


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And as has already been pointed out, we didn't get any foreshadowing, or aftermath, about the probe in 'A Day In The Strife' - the introduction of one-shot aliens is not even new.

The difference is that 'A Day In The Strife' had one small probe. 'A View from the Gallery' had an attack fleet. Which do you think is more likely for somebody on the station to have heard of, one small probe or an entire attack fleet?

vacantlook October 14th 06 22:26

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
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Which do you think is more likely for somebody on the station to have heard of, one small probe or an entire attack fleet?

Considering that space is HUGE, it's all a bunch of needles floating in endless black nothingness.

KoshN October 15th 06 18:53

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
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Which do you think is more likely for somebody on the station to have heard of, one small probe or an entire attack fleet?

Considering that space is HUGE, it's all a bunch of needles floating in endless black nothingness.

And there's no communication between races, no IA, no ISN, no remote probes, etc. :p

vacantlook October 15th 06 22:47

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
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And there's no communication between races, no IA, no ISN, no remote probes, etc.

Not covering and monitoring the complete entirity of the vastness of space, no. Space is just too big for me to be shocked and confounded that they would actually miss something, even something as big as a fleet fo ships. I wouldn't even be surprised if they missed a planet. There are, after all, somewhere between 200 and 400 billion stars in the Milky Way spread over a distance of 80,000 to 100,000 lightyears in diameter, 250,000 to 300,000 lightyears in circumference, and 1000 lightyears in thickness outside of the core's area. So, yeah, there's a lot of space out there in space. Lot's of space for things, even fleets, to hide in.

KoshN October 16th 06 23:44

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Quote:

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And there's no communication between races, no IA, no ISN, no remote probes, etc.

Not covering and monitoring the complete entirity of the vastness of space, no. Space is just too big for me to be shocked and confounded that they would actually miss something, even something as big as a fleet fo ships. I wouldn't even be surprised if they missed a planet. There are, after all, somewhere between 200 and 400 billion stars in the Milky Way spread over a distance of 80,000 to 100,000 lightyears in diameter, 250,000 to 300,000 lightyears in circumference, and 1000 lightyears in thickness outside of the core's area. So, yeah, there's a lot of space out there in space. Lot's of space for things, even fleets, to hide in.

A fleet of ships going through space <u>attacking</u> entire races/systems as they go, isn't exactly <u>"hiding."</u> Now if they'd been travelling radio-silent, in stealth ships, <u>not</u> interacting, like the Technomage exodus to the hiding place, that'd be different, <u>but they weren't</u>.

KoshFan October 16th 06 23:56

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
And yet again, we begin to bicker and argue over a rather insignificant detail of an old TV show.

Let's just accept that some people don't like the way the alien race was handled, some people don't mind it, and move on to discussing other eps.

KoshN October 17th 06 00:16

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Quote:


And yet again, we begin to bicker and argue over a rather insignificant detail of an old TV show.

Let's just accept that some people don't like the way the alien race was handled, some people don't mind it, and move on to discussing other eps.

It seemed out-of-character for the show, much like "Thirdspace" and "To Live and Die in Starlight," to me. Who knows, if we keeping getting more stuff like that, it'll be "in character" for the show.

vacantlook October 17th 06 00:20

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Quote:

no remote probes

So, just for fun, I decided to actually read through some of the Lurker's Guide synopsis, and what's the first thing it says?

Quote:

In hyperspace, a probe is destroyed by passing fighters. Shortly thereafter, Capt. Lochley is awakened by a call from Lt. Corwin, telling her of the probe's destruction. "Is it them?" she asks, but the probe was destroyed too quickly to give much information. She gets up and goes to C&amp;C.

When she gets there she informs the command crew that this is probably the scouting party they've been warned about....

So, we've got our probe encountering and being destroyed by the fleet. And Lochley asks "is it them?" and then talks to the command personnel about this being the onese they were warned about. So they've all been talking about and communicating with other governments about the fleet; it's not like the fleet just came out of nowhere. They've been anticipating them. They were warned about them.

So, just because we aren't given some huge endless list of details about this race, it's not as if the people in command hadn't been getting some information on them for at least a little bit of time; the race wasn't some big and total surprise. We viewers get this episode through the perspectives of two plain maintenence workers, so it makes sense that we're not getting some giant military intelligence dossier on this fleet because maintenance workers wouldn't be getting that information either. It fits the story being told in the episode.

vacantlook October 17th 06 00:23

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Quote:

It seemed out of character for the show, to me.

The show's done unusual episodes before; "And Now For A Word" for example tells a story in a different way than most episodes. "A Vew From The Gallery" is another such unusual episode, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't fit in with the rest of the show just because the way it tells the story that it tells is done differently than most of the episodes. It's not like it's the only unusual episode in the whole show.

deaded October 17th 06 08:21

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Quote:

The episode was originally intended for Season 4

Yeah, blah..blah.. blah whatever. Either it worked or it didn't. They filmed it, they aired it, and it sucked! More than even the ISN episodes. This is my very very most unfavorite out of all 110. I've only acquired up to volume 9 of the scripts but I think I still remember enough to trash it. This is where season 5 really bit, and it never got much better IMHO (though there were moments).

"Matt what are these things for?"
"What do you mean what are they for? You run them over the floor like this... "
"No, I mean what do they DO? They don't clean it or anything."
"Something for the metal, I don't know. Maybe it makes it stronger."
"You mean you don't know what it does either?"
"No."
"Well, then I guess it's time for lunch."

Give me a break. I'm sorry. I love 95% of B5 but this is absolute crap. Also that, "Tastes like chicken," routine. PuhLEASE!

I appreciated the conversation that Franklin had with that maintenance guy (Bo?). I've always identified with Franklin, maybe because I'm an ER doc too, but I've had those types of conversations with medics. Real heart to hearts, where you give up some of yourself, hoping that maybe it will touch the other person enough to maybe prevent them from making your mistakes, or living through your pain. ...Maybe just to let them know that they're not alone in their feelings, that doing the right thing isn't necessarily hopeless, and maybe they are not the only one who wants to go the easy route and give into the system. That was good stuff. Really good imo. But it was just once scene. ... oh and that scene where Jíkar talks about growing up in bomb shelters. That was good too.

But then thereís that battle where theyíre watching live killing like itís on wide screen TV. The only thing that was missing was popcorn. Even though they talked like itís deep, their mannerisms and body postures donít make you believe that *they* believe that people are getting killed out there. Itís like they are sitting on a stage delivering a speech, not acting in a TV show. More like a demonstration during an acting class or something. Itís just not good. Itís not believable. Not REAL.

Oh yeah, and then there was when Sheridan trusted his wifeís life to two maintenance workers that he had never met before??? Come ON! I just donít buy any of it.

And then thereís Byron! Meh. Any episode with him automatically loses a grade point. There goes the tiny little boost that this episode got for the Franklin scene. Nothing else redeems it. I mean, I do understand where JMS was going. I understand that there are many perspectives and they are all just as valid as the other. I do appreciate that there are always people around hearing part of what we say and putting things together for themselves without knowing all the facts; just as we do from otherís perspectivesí. But it just doesnít WORK. Itís dumb. Itís silly; almost embarrassing at times. At least thatís how I feel.

ymmv

Jade Jaguar October 17th 06 08:32

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Feels real to me.

Springer October 17th 06 09:20

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Of all the off-format episodes, I think A View from the Gallery is one of the least succesful, IMO, but it isn't the worst of them. The alien invaders do seem contrived (and look really naff, but I guess they were on a budget) but I guess they aren't that important, they're just a plot device to frame the story around (I just imagine that they are some minions of the Shadows who have got above their station and have come looking for revenge against the station - but we can all make up our own ideas, and I don't think it matters).

Bo and Mack are ok as characters but some of the dialogue (highlighted by Deaded, above) is pretty risable. This epsiode also seems to be the point where the special effects really take a downturn, not just in terms of the quality of the CGI but particularly in how the animators are making the spaceships move and framing the scenes.

Overall I like the concept of this episode, though maybe the execution wasn't that great. There were some nice moments, and of the early run of season 5 episodes its probably one of the better ones.

Oh, and if anyything had happened while they were with Delenn, I imagine it would have beeen her looking after Bo and Mack rather than the other way around.

crazyhorse October 17th 06 12:02

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
First off I would like to say that I think a fleet of ships could hide very easily in space.You could make an attack and be light years away before any rescue/inspection team get there.Then there is the possabilty that they were hiding in hyperspace.It was known that there was a hostile fleet,it just wasn't known where they were at that moment.

As for people watching the battle like it was a TV show why not?People do it here,the Iraq war being a prime example.You can not expect every alien race to have human mannerisms or body language either.A alien smile could signify fear as much as happyness.

Have to agree with the point made about Byron.Easily the most boring and annoying character ever to grace B5.

I thought the episode was ok but as far as the series goes one of the worst.The thing is that the show was of such a high quality that an episode that is just "average" seems worse.

Lousy_Dodgers October 17th 06 16:02

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
I think the episode might have been more effective if we had not even seen Sheridan, Lochley, or any of the other command staff. Even though Mac and Bo were just maintenance workers, they seemed to run into quite a few important people and events during the battle.

Also, it might have made the dialogue more interesting if at least one of the two did not like Sheridan or Lochley all that much. Not everyone has to swoon and talk about what an honor it is to serve with the main characters. Now, I like the main characters but I just thought it woud be interesting if Mac or Bo had a more negative view on things.

I mean, there are plenty of people in the military who serve honorably even if they think the president--whether Bush, Clinton, or anyone else--is a sack of crap.

deaded October 17th 06 21:16

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
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As for people watching the battle like it was a TV show why not? People do it here,the Iraq war being a prime example.You can not expect every alien race to have human mannerisms or body language either.

Yeah, that's my point. It's *NOT* on TV. It's in their face. They are right there and presumably they could be killed by a stray laser bolt or the station could be destroyed. And they are lounging around. And you're right, you can't expect alien mannerisms to match human. But these guys are human!

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The thing is that the show was of such a high quality that an episode that is just "average" seems worse.

Tru nuf. It was still better than any episode of the Gillmore Girls.

KoshN October 22nd 06 19:08

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
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no remote probes

So, just for fun, I decided to actually read through some of the Lurker's Guide synopsis, and what's the first thing it says?

Quote:

In hyperspace, a probe is destroyed by passing fighters. Shortly thereafter, Capt. Lochley is awakened by a call from Lt. Corwin, telling her of the probe's destruction. "Is it them?" she asks, but the probe was destroyed too quickly to give much information. She gets up and goes to C&amp;C.

When she gets there she informs the command crew that this is probably the scouting party they've been warned about....


I rewatched the episode. Yes, there was that one probe that was destroyed after sending partial info. BTW, some of the ships looked a lot like a Drakh cruiser in shape (not necessarily in size).



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So, we've got our probe encountering and being destroyed by the fleet. And Lochley asks "is it them?" and then talks to the command personnel about this being the onese they were warned about. So they've all been talking about and communicating with other governments about the fleet; it's not like the fleet just came out of nowhere. They've been anticipating them. They were warned about them.

So, just because we aren't given some huge endless list of details about this race,

I am not asking for "some huge endless list of details." I just think that these aliens shouldn't have gone "Poof!" at the end of the battle, never to be heard of again, not even in passing, not even a name, as...if...they...never...existed.



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... it's not as if the people in command hadn't been getting some information on them for at least a little bit of time; the race wasn't some big and total surprise. We viewers get this episode through the perspectives of two plain maintenence workers, so it makes sense that we're not getting some giant military intelligence dossier on this fleet because maintenance workers wouldn't be getting that information either. It fits the story being told in the episode.

There you go again. I am not looking for "some giant military intelligence dossier." Why is it when I ask for tidbits of info., for the aliens not to be dropped like a hot potato, never to be heard of again, it somehow translates to you as "some huge endless list of details" and "some giant military intelligence dossier" ?

KoshN October 22nd 06 19:49

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
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Yeah, blah..blah.. blah whatever. Either it worked or it didn't. They filmed it, they aired it, and it sucked!

Pretty much. That plus some of the lines are practically like eating a 5 lb. bag of sugar.



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More than even the ISN episodes. This is my very very most unfavorite out of all 110.

I didn't mind the ISN episodes as much, either, but my least favorite is "Believers." I like "Infection," "Grey 17 is Missing," and "TKO" far more than "Believers."



Quote:

"Matt what are these things for?"
"What do you mean what are they for? You run them over the floor like this... "
"No, I mean what do they DO? They don't clean it or anything."
"Something for the metal, I don't know. Maybe it makes it stronger."
"You mean you don't know what it does either?"
"No."
"Well, then I guess it's time for lunch."

Give me a break. I'm sorry. I love 95% of B5 but this is absolute crap.


Yeah, like techs who use the equipment wouldn't have a clue as to what that equipment does. :rolleyes: That was ridiculous. How do they know if it's working? You'd let these guys work on your important systems? :eek: At some points, they seem hardly more knowledgable than janitors, and at other moments, they're tearing into the defense grid during a battle, <u>and successfully fixing it!</u> That incongruity seems like lazy writing, to me. In real life, you'd have different level techs working on the various systems we saw them working on.

e.g. In a nuclear power plant, the guys who maintain the floors are not the same guys who maintain the Solid State Protection System (which the nuclear operators use to control the reactor). Hell, this was almost as if Chris Carter had written the episode (ref. The X-Files 6X01 "The Beginning"), and that's <u>not</u> a compliment.


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Also that, "Tastes like chicken," routine. PuhLEASE!

Routines. They did it at least twice. Yeah, clichťd to the max.


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I appreciated the conversation that Franklin had with that maintenance guy (Bo?). I've always identified with Franklin, maybe because I'm an ER doc too, but I've had those types of conversations with medics. Real heart to hearts, where you give up some of yourself, hoping that maybe it will touch the other person enough to maybe prevent them from making your mistakes, or living through your pain. ...Maybe just to let them know that they're not alone in their feelings, that doing the right thing isn't necessarily hopeless, and maybe they are not the only one who wants to go the easy route and give into the system. That was good stuff. Really good imo. But it was just once scene. ... oh and that scene where Jíkar talks about growing up in bomb shelters. That was good too.

But then thereís that battle where theyíre watching live killing like itís on wide screen TV. The only thing that was missing was popcorn. Even though they talked like itís deep, their mannerisms and body postures donít make you believe that *they* believe that people are getting killed out there. Itís like they are sitting on a stage delivering a speech, not acting in a TV show. More like a demonstration during an acting class or something. Itís just not good. Itís not believable. Not REAL.

Oh yeah, and then there was when Sheridan trusted his wifeís life to two maintenance workers that he had never met before??? Come ON! I just donít buy any of it.

Yeah, but if you were Franklin, would wou want non-specialists working on your medlab equipment?



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And then thereís Byron! Meh. Any episode with him automatically loses a grade point.

Only one grade point? For me, it's two or three.


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There goes the tiny little boost that this episode got for the Franklin scene. Nothing else redeems it. I mean, I do understand where JMS was going. I understand that there are many perspectives and they are all just as valid as the other. I do appreciate that there are always people around hearing part of what we say and putting things together for themselves without knowing all the facts; just as we do from otherís perspectivesí. But it just doesnít WORK. Itís dumb. Itís silly; almost embarrassing at times. At least thatís how I feel.

Same here.

hypatia October 22nd 06 21:50

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Wow, you really enjoy hating this episode. :lol:

Then I guess, in a way, it entertained you. :D ;)

Jade Jaguar October 23rd 06 00:26

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
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Yeah, like techs who use the equipment wouldn't have a clue as to what that equipment does. :rolleyes: That was ridiculous. How do they know if it's working? You'd let these guys work on your important systems? :eek: At some points, they seem hardly more knowledgable than janitors, and at other moments, they're tearing into the defense grid during a battle, <u>and successfully fixing it!</u> That incongruity seems like lazy writing, to me.


Surely you've had a job that required doing things that seemed pointless. So, I guess you just don't appreciate satire. :rolleyes:

fisheggs October 23rd 06 00:47

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
When I first watched it I had an impression of a "Waiting for Godot " homage, :p with that bit of Everyman thrown in. As far as the raiders never being heard about again, they might have featured prominantly in Crusade, Season 2 or 3, we'll never know. :o

Jade Jaguar October 23rd 06 05:26

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Yes, there definitely was and element of Waiting for Godot in it.

GaribaldisHair October 23rd 06 08:41

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Well, since JMS has always maintained that he enjoys starting bar fights over his shows, particularly with his off-format episodes, then I can only conclude that AVftG was an unqualified success, since there are those here who hate it with a passion, and others who would count it among their very favourite eps.

Subjectivity rules ... I love it!

hypatia October 23rd 06 13:01

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Indeed. :beer:

vacantlook October 23rd 06 20:46

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
I always saw the "what does this thing do" comment as nothing more than just an in-joke between sci-fi show creators and viewers about silly strange futuristic technology props used in sci-fi. I never looked at it as even attempting to be more than that.

As for the aliens just disappearing after the episode, two points. One, it's not like we got every day of life on B5 for our viewing pleasure, they very easily could have caused problems down the road. There is like what seventeen or eightteen years between when Sheridan leaves B5 in "Objects At Rest" and when the station is retired in "Sleeping In Light". Plenty of time for some run-ins there. Two, even if the aliens never did bother poking a stick at B5 again doesn't mean that other alien civilizations didn't ever have any issues with them, but the show is Babylon 5 not The League of Non-Aligned Worlds, so it wouldn't be particularly important to show us any of those conflicts (hell, we didn't even see any of the inner conflicts between members of the League during the Shadow War that the Shadows encouraged).

Jade Jaguar October 24th 06 00:38

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Quote:

Well, since JMS has always maintained that he enjoys starting bar fights over his shows, particularly with his off-format episodes, then I can only conclude that AVftG was an unqualified success, since there are those here who hate it with a passion, and others who would count it among their very favourite eps.

Subjectivity rules ... I love it!

For the record, it isn't "one of my favorites," but I like it. I'll admit that I was a bit put off by it at the beginning, since it is so different from what JMS normally does with B5. But, when I came to see what he was doing, I enjoyed it as a light-hearted, satirical, self-effacing, bit of humor, with a few serious moments, like with Byron, who I do like. :p

VL's observation is right on.

KoshN October 27th 06 17:13

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Quote:

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Yeah, like techs who use the equipment wouldn't have a clue as to what that equipment does. :rolleyes: That was ridiculous. How do they know if it's working? You'd let these guys work on your important systems? :eek: At some points, they seem hardly more knowledgable than janitors, and at other moments, they're tearing into the defense grid during a battle, <u>and successfully fixing it!</u> That incongruity seems like lazy writing, to me.


Surely you've had a job that required doing things that seemed pointless.

I've never had a job where I was using a tool and had no idea what the tool did. Sure, I've had jobs that initially seemed pointless, but after some investigation, I found the reason for doing the job, and by "reason" I don't mean solely "because I was told to do so." (No, I've never been in the military.) I dunno, maybe I instinctively rebel against being treated like a mindless automaton. <u>There has to be meaning.</u> Otherwise, I'd program a robot to do the job, and I'd be off doing something else.

KoshN October 27th 06 17:37

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
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Wow, you really enjoy hating this episode. :lol:

Then I guess, in a way, it entertained you. :D ;)

But I didn't "hate" the episode. In fact, I can't think of any B5 episodes I truly hate. "Believers" comes the closest. In the TV movies, "To Live and Die in Starlight" comes the closest. In Crusade, "Ruling from the Tomb" comes the closest, but even that is rescued by Eilerson, Trace, Dureena, Gideon and Matheson.

I find ~95% of "A View from the Gallery" to be padding, dull, clichťd and improbable, a waste of time, ...as in "Why am I watching this?" The only good parts are when the camera is solely on Franklin (like when Franklin is covering up the bodies), and Londo &amp; G'Kar (in their own little world).

Elipsis March 1st 08 23:30

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
I really disliked this episode, in fact I think it is among the worst of B5. I see there have already been many pages of debating the legitimacy of adding in miscellaneous aliens to B5, but to me it just felt like shoddy writing and half-assed story stretching. Yes yes, it could have been normal and blah and blah and we don't know everything about the unknowns of blah blah and such... but it still feels like crap storytelling to me and no argument about whether or not such an attack fits within the believability of the B5 universe is going to change that for me.

Bo and Mack weren't interesting to me - the dialog was more corny than interesting or moving, and the prosthetics were red fucking helmets.

It also really downplayed the awesome dramatic feel that always comes with actual combat on or near Babylon 5. (Remember how rare shooting was in the first 2 seasons, and how epic it felt when someone finally yelled "Close blast doors!"?) Maybe that was the intent of the episode, but I really wasn't feeling it. Any of it.

The only reason it's not a failure was the Londo / G'kar sequence. D-

vacantlook March 2nd 08 00:09

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
I can understand not liking the Mack and Bo characters, but faulting the episode for having "miscellaneous aliens" is kind of strange considering how many times there actually were miscellaneous aliens in the show. We can easily get used to thinking limited aliens because the focus is on the Minbari, Centauri, Narn, and Vorlons so much, but there are miscellaneous aliens that show up once and never mean anything beyond the one episode, so it's not like it's some rarity limited to just this one episode.

hypatia March 2nd 08 03:19

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
That's true: many species, or aliens to us, most likely weren't even part of the League of Non-allied Worlds.

As always, I found this episode one of the best of the last season. Just goes to show you: different people have different tastes.

Although, does the episode make sense in the context of the "oh, it was all just a historical simulation"? But then again, I just feel JMS threw that in, without really considering it throughout the entire show. It's honestly the one sort of "cop-out" in the show, IMHO. It adds nothing to the story, and almost seems like a joke he threw in at the last minute.

But if these really were historical documents, not events that we're getting a real peek into, those historians seem to have had access to some pretty trivial records. Or just made stuff up.

In any event, I like the view from the gallery we get. And the episode adds to the image of Delen being generally concerned and considerate of all people in all ranks. Not to mention it adds a bit of a "?" to the whole Byron story. Just what was he doing, and more importantly why, when he let Bo get a peek into the mind of a soldier on the front lines, fending off the attack. And how they seemed equally sympathetic to the invaders as they were to their own races and their own kind.

Was that a genuine attempt to connect with mundanes, of all races and kinds? Or was it more like a lab scientist observing how his lab rats interact with each other?

But of course, Mac and Bo and their conversations really make the episode for me. The only corny dialog, really, that I remember from B5 was when Penn and Teller guest-starred.

Boy, was that a mistake. At least for me.

Galahad March 2nd 08 11:58

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hypatia (Post 316158)
Not to mention it adds a bit of a "?" to the whole Byron story. Just what was he doing, and more importantly why, when he let Bo get a peek into the mind of a soldier on the front lines, fending off the attack. And how they seemed equally sympathetic to the invaders as they were to their own races and their own kind.

Was that a genuine attempt to connect with mundanes, of all races and kinds? Or was it more like a lab scientist observing how his lab rats interact with each other?

Well I always took Byron as a quasi-religious figure for his people. If you think of it like that, it has parallels with some of the things Christ did. Most of his ministry was directed towards the jewish people... but then you get glimpses of it extending out in cases of the centurion's servant and the syro-phoenician woman etc. I would say that this was Byron letting the dogs eat the crumbs from the children's table.

Negative or annoying as he is portrayed... I don't see Byron or his people as a malevolent influence until he gets his brain fried by sleeping with Lyta. I really do think that sent him over the edge.

Quote:

But of course, Mac and Bo and their conversations really make the episode for me. The only corny dialog, really, that I remember from B5 was when Penn and Teller guest-starred.

Boy, was that a mistake. At least for me.
Yeah I agree on that... as for the latter, fortunately the rest of the episode made it bearable

Estelyn November 13th 10 18:25

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
I really like this episode! I can understand some of the objections that have been mentioned so far, but I am not bothered by them. What I appreciate is the light-hearted and warm-hearted atmosphere, the amusing, often tongue-in-cheek dialogues, the different than usual viewpoint.

I am very amused by the cool reaction displayed by Bo and Mack, right in the middle of the big action beginning. Obviously they've experienced so many red alerts that this is just a "same old" feeling for them. They're only mildly aggravated because they'll have to clean up whatever mess ensues afterwards. They show their trust in the "warrior caste", those responsible for keeping them safe, and are content to stick to their own jobs and capabilities. It's almost a childlike trust, safe in the knowledge that the parents will make sure everything is alright: "Our guys will handle it".

The two actors really make their characters come alive! I get a bit of a Laurel and Hardy feeling with them, though the role of straight man bounces back and forth between them. And I disagree with the idea that the "big ones" wouldn't have to be shown in this episode - it is precisely the fresh view of them from a different vantage point that makes the show so good.

I chuckle over their opinions - and what they say about Sheridan really reminds me of what aged Delenn said in "Deconstruction" - he's a good man. The additional line about him having been dead, "Nobody's perfect", is so funny!

Much of their dialogue consists of questions they're asking on behalf of the viewers. I can imagine using this episode to introduce someone new to the events of the fifth season.

The Ivanova rumours and comments echo the real life events that involved Claudia Christian leaving the show. Londo and G'Kar's bickering (more good-natured than annoyed now) is seen as being like that of an old married couple - reminds me of the "Odd Couple".

I like the scene with Dr. Franklin - some very thoughtful lines there. Going back to him for the final scene is sobering and moving. Worse than any messes to clean up are the losses suffered - and the two characters clearly see and appreciate the meaning of that fact. Even more poignant are the lights above the bodies, saying "Welcome to Babylon 5".

The comparisons for the White Stars are also amusing - first saying they look like plucked chickens, then like angels who fly in to save the day.

What inspires the greatest admiration is finally not courage or military prowess, but love - the relationship between Sheridan and Delenn is the highlight for Bo and Mack.

And one more thing: the bugs that show up all over the station, disrupting equipment, must be the ones that Londo fought with his sword, right? A nice touch, connecting a minor element from a previous episode...

Demonn April 14th 11 01:55

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
I think this is my favorite episode of Babylon 5... it's tough narrowing it down but, man, I loved this episode & I'm surprised it has such a mixed vote.

hypatia April 14th 11 02:27

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
It's different, that always gets mixed responses.

It's one of my favorites, too. "Waiting for [I still can't spell that name, Gethsemene?]" I think is closer to my heart (raised Catholic and all that rot), and so I'd have to reluctantly say my second favorite.

The end of "War Without End" just can't be matched, though. "My God! A Minbari not born of Minbari." I am so glad that the story evolved to this, it's just an amazing plot "twist". :)


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