B5TV.COM

B5TV.COM (http://www.b5tv.com/index.php)
-   B5.world (http://www.b5tv.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
-   -   EpDis: A View From The Gallery (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=9321)

Ranger1 October 6th 06 12:22

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
yes, yes, yes. you know what i meant, it felt disjointed simply because rising star and the deconstruction of falling stars, feel like the end of the story because after all they are, plus because the S5 arcs are much shorter than the much longer arcs of seasons 1 thru 4 it feels like babylon 5 "lite", and i'm just not cool with that.

Mike G October 6th 06 13:56

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Actually it was the Gaim who had had contact with them before.

PillowRock October 6th 06 14:37

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Quote:

I can't imagine that any of the races, even major ones, have utter and total domination and awareness over absolutely every sliver of space they claim to be theirs.

But that argument ignores the theoretical point of that race's incurssion.

If they're looking for beatable targets .... conquerable territory .... as the the episode said ...... Then they should have been probing at the defenses of whoever's territory they got to as they went. It makes no sense to stealthily slip through a large expanse of space and then hold a major battle to test the "beat-ability" of the people that you find on the other side. Even if you do find out that the race that you test is beatable, their territory is still not a candidate for conquest if you have to rely on being able to sneak through somebody else's territory every time that you want to send anything or anyone in either direction between that new territory and your established paower base. For all sorts of command / control / logistics reasons your position in that newly won territory would completely untennable.

This point doesn't wreck this whole episode for me. However, that doesn't mean that the point about this race's sudden appearance not making logical sense isn't valid.

hypatia October 6th 06 15:00

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Did anyone ever say B5 was going to be this group's first target?

And why can't B5 be situated in a convenient path for them?

Were the invaders originally going to be Clarke's forces, then? :confused:

PillowRock October 6th 06 15:13

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Quote:

ultimately the storylines felt rushed and because it was never intended, the arcs were all finished in season 4.

No, the story lines weren't "never intended". I don't have the quotes at my fingertips, but from back before S1 JMS had said that he intended the series to show the entire cycle of the war ..... *including* the reconstruction afterwards.

And I remember the stuff that KoshFan was talking about too. Intersections in Real Time would have been the S4 cliffhanger (ala Z'Ha'dum the year before). Meaning that the season boundary only shifts by 4 episodes (this much is stated explicitly among the quotes in the JMS Speaks portion of the IiRT page at the Lurkers Guide), and one of those 4 extra S4 eps would have been A View from the Gallery with EarthForce as the attackers (don't have the source quotes for that at hand, but I know that I read it somewhere along the line .... and not just in fan speculation).

The problem with S5 isn't that it telling stories that hadn't been planned all along. It's that the demise of PTEN ended up forcing them not to start weaving in those threads during season 4. Because of *that* feel detached from the rest of the arc, not part of the whole interwoven tapestry.

Lousy_Dodgers October 6th 06 15:24

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Yeah, I see your points; I am mixed on the episode since on the one hand, I do like the idea of focusing on people who are not the ones in positions of authority. Yet, everything else that JMS did in the series spoke against having alien races attack just because they can, especially one that we have not seen before. Even if the Clark option was not open, perhaps the Drakh could have worked or maybe one of the other races allied with the Shadows since they would at least have the motivation.

PillowRock October 6th 06 16:14

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Quote:

Did anyone ever say B5 was going to be this group's first target?

And why can't B5 be situated in a convenient path for them?

The problem is the lack of warning combined with B5 having been purposely positioned to be in the middle of all of the known races (which makes sense for original dimplomatic meeting place mission).

B5 could have just happened to have been on their path.

*BUT* if they were probing for weakness in potential opponents all along the way, and had to pass through enough populated space to get to something as centrally located as B5 is said to be, then the Alliance should have had enough warning to get at least some of the White Stars back into a defensive posture before they actually got to B5.


Now, if you want to speculate about reasons why it might make sense for them to have remained stealthy until they got to B5, then you can come up with some things. It's that it pretty much requires throwing out what is said about their motivations and strategy in the episode. It doesn't make any sense for them to be stealthy unitl the get close to B5 IF they are actually using a recon in force to test the combat strength potential conquest targets.

IF, on the other hand, they know a whole lot about the B5 region and what is and has been going on there, even though nobody in this region has ever even heard of them before ...... Then it could make quite a bit of sense to specifically try to sneak up on B5 and take it out. As long as the fledgeling Alliance President and Council is on the station, that could be a good way to try to break up the Alliance so that the smaller members would become easier prey.

vacantlook October 6th 06 18:45

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Quote:

The problem is the lack of warning combined with B5 having been purposely positioned to be in the middle of all of the known races (which makes sense for original dimplomatic meeting place mission).

Again, I still can't understand why anyone would think that Babylon 5 was totally and completely 360 on all axes surrounded by occupied alien territory. Just because B5 tends to be the center of the galaxy storywise doesn't mean that it's literally at the center of every race's space.

PillowRock October 6th 06 22:13

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
First of all, it doesn't need to be "totally and completely 360 on all axes". If you believe what's said in the episode, that this fleet is purposely engaging whoever they find in order to gauge their combat strength, then they would be going out of their way to hit people / places. Therefore, for them to get to B5 without giving much warning, the gap required couldn't be even remotely "small"; the gap would have to be a huge gaping hole.

I find that highly unlikely because:

A) Lots of the races around B5 have shown quite aggressive expansionist tendancies.

B) A couple of those races have been at it (as expansionist spacefaring races) for a looooong time.

C) Once again, Babylon 5 was specifically placed in a location that was centrally between all of those competing powers.

The combination makes me think that it would highly unlikely that any large vacuum of power / control would be left unexploited for long. Somebody would have moved in with at least some pressense to stake a claim.

The Centauri are always talking about how much their empire has declined as they have been pushed back by newer powers. And that gets talked about as a general trend, not just the Narn gaining independence and then expanding out, and not just a whole series of rebellions gaining independence. Do you really think that fighting to take planets away from entrenched technological powers would be the most cost effective way to grow a new empire if there were large unclaimed regions in the immediate vicinity?

Galahad October 7th 06 12:14

Re: EpDis: A View From The Gallery
 
Why are some people assuming that the aliens weren't aware of the White Star fleet's absence? How do you know it wasn't a tactical decision to attack based on the opportunity created by the Alliance fleet's engagement elsewhere?

Perhaps they were acting a lot like the vikings.


All times are GMT. The time now is 14:22.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2008 B5TV.COM