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-   -   EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=9105)

vacantlook June 29th 06 03:03

EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat
Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for No Surrender, No Retreat
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for No Surrender, No Retreat

Mike G June 29th 06 13:17

Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat
One of my favorites of the whole show for several reasons. It manages to be a heavy arc episode, but at the same time its not so complicated that you can't jump right in. Its refreshing and a lot more interesting to see a big space battle where the goal isn't to wipe out the enemy fleet, but is to get them to see your point of view. It also doesn't hurt that the special effects kicked ass in this one too.

The scene in G'kar's quarters with Londo was amazing, and one of my favorites between them. It was somewhat of a role reversal in that Londo was being the serious one for the most part, while G'kar was more mocking and insulting. :)

There are a lot of things that come together and work very well in this episode. I give it an A.

Boxie June 30th 06 19:57

Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat
I loved this episode, it's one of my favorites! I love the way it written, the effects, and the performances...everyone was just excellent. I especially liked the way Bruce played this one. :D He is soooo sexy when he takes charge! He's usually just cute, and I prefer the hair a little longer... :D but ooooh baaaby!

Did I mention that I liked the story, too? :lol: I really did!!

RW7427 July 1st 06 20:42

Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat
All thumbs up! ;)

Elipsis January 17th 08 01:59

Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat
Obviously a heavy episode, I wouldn't have like it if they didn't approach the killing of Earthforce officers with the appropriate gravity, but they did.

I gave it an A, but can someone tell me how a whitestar gets destroyed by an Earthforce ship?

mattikake January 17th 08 12:54

Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat
^ I don't think there has been any indication that the lasers on EAS destroyers are not powerful enough to do this. They are tech the Narn sold humans during the Earth-Minbari war (though I can't remember where I read/saw/interpreted that bit!). And 3 Narn cruisers were able to combine their Laser firepower to disable a Shadow vessel...

A+ defintely. One of my top 10 episodes. Story, action, tactics and all the usual requirements including a great LonKar scene. :)

Galahad January 17th 08 14:33

Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat
You also have to remember that Sheridan was aiming to win the battle to a different set of criteria to the Earthforce fleet.

1) He wanted wavering Earthforce ships to sign on with him
2) He wanted enemy ships to surrender and be handed over to the authorities.
3) He needed to continually disprove any notion that he was an enemy of Earth itself.

Therefore if he'd have gone full tilt with the whitestars and gone out of his way to destroy the hardcore Clarke vessels, he'd have probably eliminated any hope of winning round the other ships.

Clarke's ships did not have that moral predicament and had no reason to hesitate in "blowing him out of the sky".

Much more importantly, if I recall... the Captain of the EAS Furies - Stephanie Eckland... was rather hot. She didn't get any speaking lines though alas... and i can't find any screen caps etc.

dreamer August 30th 08 13:22

Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat
I'm in the process of watching the series... again, and this truly was a wonderful episode. Great Maker that I love the scene at the bar counter when G'Kar comes there and has the drink with Londo and how Londo takes his glass afterwards and puts it next to his own. The music just makes this for me and I notice myself swallowing back my tears every time I see the scene.

Few episodes back there was Rumours, Bargains and Lies, and I think it's one of the best episodes on the show because it's funny and doubles as a detective story for the viewers. I enjoyed tremendously putting the pieces together of what Sheridan was doing. Simply brilliant idea.

Kudos JMS, again and forever.

Estelyn October 26th 10 21:11

Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat
I like how the episode begins, almost like a prelude: the military sound of drums, which has been used in similar situations before to great effect, combined with the preparation of the war room and Sheridan marching there through the corridors. I also enjoy seeing how Lt. Corwin is shown taking on greater responsibility - I like that characters can grow and change in this show.

Susan's classic line: "Trust Ivanova, trust yourself, anyone else, shoot 'em." Didn't she say something like that earlier in the series?

I like the tactics discussion, with the good ideas about fooling Earth forces into thinking they would be attacking elsewhere first.

The Londo/G'Kar scene is wonderful! I can't help feeling for Londo when he tries to express his feelings about the past, only to have his thanks and respect rejected. He obviously truly regrets his actions, but G'Kar is not interested in forgiving him and turns down his gesture of peace. But he too is capable of growth and change, as we see in the final scene between the two of them. Now it's Londo who's showing humility...

I agree that it's good to see that Sheridan isn't fighting his own people lightly, giving them a chance to back down peacefully. The story is well constructed in that the captains of the various ships react differently - they don't all flock to his side with flying colours. The variations on mutiny are interesting, with the clear call to activate one's own conscience, not just to follow orders because they come from above.

Above all, I like the statement that it's not a victory, just a mission objective achieved. There's no jubilation because the losses are tragic. Sheridan says the voters will decide who's right or wrong; that may sound very democratic, but are we sure that voters make correct decisions? Where would they get the information needed to do so?

And finally, we see Garibaldi leaving the station - has Edgars called him, or is he breaking with it at his own initiative, for his own reasons?

vacantlook October 27th 10 17:19

Re: EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat

Susan's classic line: "Trust Ivanova, trust yourself, anyone else, shoot 'em." Didn't she say something like that earlier in the series?
The earlier statement that you're thinking of might be the "Babylon 5 mantra."

"Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is god. And if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out."

It's from season one's A Voice In The Wilderness.

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