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-   -   EpDis: Falling Toward Apotheosis (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=8924)

KoshFan November 21st 07 05:52

Re: EpDis: Falling Toward Apotheosis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mattikake (Post 312603)
Ah right, so you need to be a nerd to know that.

You kinda need to be a nerd to watch B5 to begin with!

Kaz November 21st 07 11:04

Re: EpDis: Falling Toward Apotheosis
 
As far as entertainment goes, this episode was very much up there with the top ones. Especially as we finally understand how and why G'Kar ended up losing his eye. And the Regent character was quirky yet amusing in some respects.

Truth_Seeker March 11th 08 21:34

Re: EpDis: Falling Toward Apotheosis
 
Absolutely an A.The fight between Kosh and Ulkesh was great.The episode reveals a lot about the Vorlons but also places some new questions:

1.Why all the humans who witnessed the fight saw the two Vorlons simply as pure light if all humans were manipulated to see them as angels?
2.What is the reason for the explosion of Ulkesh's ship?(My opinion is that the answer can be found in "Interludes and Examinations" where Delenn explains that Kosh's ship was built only for him.Probably Kosh wanted the fight to end inside the ship because he knew that the ship can't support two Vorlons at the same time and it will explode)

We can also see that despite their high level of evolution the Vorlons also have disagreements between themselves.

Galahad March 11th 08 23:49

Re: EpDis: Falling Toward Apotheosis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth_Seeker (Post 316444)
Absolutely an A.The fight between Kosh and Ulkesh was great.The episode reveals a lot about the Vorlons but also places some new questions:

1.Why all the humans who witnessed the fight saw the two Vorlons simply as pure light if all humans were manipulated to see them as angels?

Well I don't know what you were seeing...but they appeared to be squiddy/jellyfish type things to me! The reason they were seen for how they were, was because they were going Portuguese man o war et man o war, they were under too much stress to put up a "perception suit". Thats what Kosh telepathically used to disguise himself when saving Sheridan (and hence why he described the incident as causing him great strain).

Quote:

2.What is the reason for the explosion of Ulkesh's ship?(My opinion is that the answer can be found in "Interludes and Examinations" where Delenn explains that Kosh's ship was built only for him.Probably Kosh wanted the fight to end inside the ship because he knew that the ship can't support two Vorlons at the same time and it will explode)
I think the sudden release of energy overloaded the ship and blew it apart. I also think Ulkesh was making a break for it and Kosh stayed with him until the fight became fatal.

Oh and...

[spoiler]If you read one of the JMS short stories that was published in the B5 Mag, you discover that because Ulkesh's ship's fate differed to Kosh's, it is not the last you hear of it[/spoiler]

vacantlook March 12th 08 01:27

Re: EpDis: Falling Toward Apotheosis
 
For a more detailed description of the short story jms wrote that Galahad references:

Spoiler for Hidden Agendas:
Sheridan had Ulkesh's ship's pieces brought back to Bay 13 to be studied, and while there the ship rebuilt itself. When Ivanova shows up at B5 commanding the new Warlock-class Titans, she reveals to Sheridan that she's discovered hidden Shadow-tech programming in the Titans's computer systems that would enable remote access to the ship's systems and let someone somewhere else take command away from the crew. To counter this, Sheridan and Ivanova place Ulkesh's rebuilt ship in one of the bays on the Titans, where it connected to the ship and now sits there continuously neutralizing the Shadow-tech.

Truth_Seeker March 12th 08 13:31

Re: EpDis: Falling Toward Apotheosis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad (Post 316446)
Well I don't know what you were seeing...but they appeared to be squiddy/jellyfish type things to me! The reason they were seen for how they were, was because they were going Portuguese man o war et man o war, they were under too much stress to put up a "perception suit". Thats what Kosh telepathically used to disguise himself when saving Sheridan (and hence why he described the incident as causing him great strain).



I think the sudden release of energy overloaded the ship and blew it apart. I also think Ulkesh was making a break for it and Kosh stayed with him until the fight became fatal.

Oh and...

[spoiler]If you read one of the JMS short stories that was published in the B5 Mag, you discover that because Ulkesh's ship's fate differed to Kosh's, it is not the last you hear of it[/spoiler]


Truth_Seeker March 12th 08 13:37

Re: EpDis: Falling Toward Apotheosis
 
That is a logical answer.Thanks Galahad.I suppose I should read the novels and the short stories before asking some of those questions.

Anyway it is one of the best episodes.

Estelyn October 9th 10 23:49

Re: EpDis: Falling Toward Apotheosis
 
I must admit, I did have to look up "apotheosis" when I read this title! That would point to the Carthagia plot as being central, but there's so much going on that it's hard to see any one element as the main one. I continue to see similarities with Nero and the burning of Rome when he says of his planet "Let it burn."

The "shadow" cabinet is an amusing play on words, and I enjoyed this line: "Trouble with being infallible, you have to put up with everyone else making mistakes."

Sheridan comes across almost Messiah-like in the first scene, though he is the unwilling object of admiration. His resolve to kill the Vorlon is a surprise, and having Kosh involved, going against one of his own race, is an interesting twist.

After all that confidence and determination, it's amusing to see Sheridan's awkwardness when he proposes to Delenn.

Alioth July 1st 12 10:11

Re: EpDis: Falling Toward Apotheosis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 365370)
I must admit, I did have to look up "apotheosis" when I read this title! That would point to the Carthagia plot as being central, but there's so much going on that it's hard to see any one element as the main one. I continue to see similarities with Nero and the burning of Rome when he says of his planet "Let it burn."

The "shadow" cabinet is an amusing play on words, and I enjoyed this line: "Trouble with being infallible, you have to put up with everyone else making mistakes."

Sheridan comes across almost Messiah-like in the first scene, though he is the unwilling object of admiration. His resolve to kill the Vorlon is a surprise, and having Kosh involved, going against one of his own race, is an interesting twist.

After all that confidence and determination, it's amusing to see Sheridan's awkwardness when he proposes to Delenn.

I thought the title could apply to both Cartagia and Sheridan/younger races, in different ways. It was the first time Sheridan took a decisive stand against the Vorlons, which was a necessary step on the path of claiming the galaxy for the younger races and expelling the First Ones--which had "godlike" influence over the younger races, so when they were gone we would sort of move into their place (and hopefully do better), become our own "gods". In fact, I had first thought the title was referring to that, strangely, even though the Cartagia angle was more obvious.

I like the idea of "falling toward" apotheosis (godhood)--it sort of reflected the feeling of how things were really getting out of control then (whether by the madness of Cartagia, or the real uncertainty of how the new double threat of the Vorlons and Shadows would or could be dealt with).... Probably the most interesting episode title of the series.

Lennier's Tears February 15th 15 07:20

Re: EpDis: Falling Toward Apotheosis
 
This is really good. It's very dark.. In tone I mean, although also in color. I agree with some of the other posters here about the episode title. Pretty much all Babylon 5 episodes have great, clever titles, and I've commented on that in other threads, but yea, this is a really good one.

It's interesting here that Sheridan isn't such a fan of the cult of personality building around him, here.

Ivanova's updates on "the situation" are pretty chilling. It's hard to really grasp the scale of the destruction. The Vorlon's are taking out whole worlds. There is nowhere to run. This is really terrifying.

The Centauri bits are great, again. Cartagia is magnificent, and I really like that Centauri emperor outfit. He wears it rather differently than Turhan did. I love how Cartagia flings the sides of the coat over the armrests of his chair as he sits. Plotting Londo is also great. He's very clever, and again, he knows just how to talk to Cartagia.

The Vorlon fight is pretty spectacular, and, finally, we get to really see Vorlons! They still look cool, even when not projecting their angelic faces. I always loved the idea of the living ships that are bound to individual Vorlons. Kosh gets to sacrifice himself again, good for him :p

This is also where we learn that Sheridan has 20 years to live, which I suppose is kind of an important plot point ... I like the conversation about this with Lorien and Delenn OK, but I'm not entirely crazy about the engagement ring/proposal bit after that. Like with most things I am not crazy about on B5, that is mostly just due to my own hangups. I think that's a pretty ridiculous tradition and I would like to see it gone before the 23rd century. I do like how awkward Sheridan can get when it comes to relationship stuff :p

Sheridan's haircut is excellent in this. I am pleased! :p

Mr.Garibaldi's newly enhanced paranoia comes out right from the start of this season. I remember being really worried about what was going on with him when I first watched this. Even though I now know exactly what is going on with him, the worry hasn't really left. All of his scenes kind of stress me out now!


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