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vacantlook March 7th 06 01:25

EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for The Hour Of The Wolf
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for The Hour Of The Wolf

GKarsEye March 7th 06 02:17

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Holy crap, season 4 already, eh? Sunrise, sunset.

Um... good ep. :)

RW7427 March 7th 06 03:10

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
I love the first 6 eps of season 4. Great stuff! :cool:

hypatia March 7th 06 03:13

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Ah, my old avatar came from this episode. :)

Quite a follow-up episode.

Elric March 7th 06 11:50

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
A good start to season 4, not quite A standard (in B5 terms) so a B from me. I think part of the reason for this is that this is part of the build up to Into The Fire - not all eps can be A rated, without the build up eps, the A eps would not be anywhere near as good IMO.

I love the scenes with Cartagia, he's just so crazy and Wortham Krimmer plays him so well. One of many examples in B5 where you just can't imagine another actor playing the role. I think it must very very hard to convincingly play a nutter, but he just did it so well (maybe too well ;)).

GKarsEye March 7th 06 13:40

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Quote:

I think it must very very hard to convincingly play a nutter

Actually, I think crazies and weirdos and retards are considered easy acting roles. That's why there are always a lot of snide comments and jokes made whenever an actor wins an Oscar for such a role. In general, it is considered tougher to play a "normal" person, because it requires a lot more nuance.

Not to take anything away from Cartagia- awesome character, and the reason I got into the show in the first place.

So, yeah, As for all the Cartagia eps.

Elric March 7th 06 15:33

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Quote:


Actually, I think crazies and weirdos and retards are considered easy acting roles. That's why there are always a lot of snide comments and jokes made whenever an actor wins an Oscar for such a role. In general, it is considered tougher to play a "normal" person, because it requires a lot more nuance.


I see your point. I think was was the flamboyance and some of his manerisms that made it a great performance. The one bit that always sticks in my memory is ringing that little bell - not sure why but I liked it.

I also think a lot of it is in the eyes. Some actors can convey a lot through their eyes, but I've not seen many that can have the right intenstity in their look that creeps you out. Brad Douriff springs to mind - he's played some great nutters in his time.

GKarsEye March 7th 06 16:32

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Yeah, no argument about his performance.

Dourif's best is when he plays people who are a little crazy, not completely crazy. Billy from A Cuckoo's Nest probably typecast him for that forever. He does that so great on Deadwood these days.

RW7427 March 7th 06 17:54

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Just like I said about Andreas when he passed away BEING G'Kar, Wortham Krimmer IS Cartagia. Both men played their characters so well that I just can't imagine anyone else playing them. (Then again I feel that way about most of the cast... :lol: ). Cartagia was a madman, and Wortham did an excellent job portraying him. He played the role with feeling and intensity. After seeing his performance as Cartagia, you really DID believe that the emperor was insane. ;)

Elipsis November 14th 07 17:21

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
A. I love the chilling scene where Londo puts on the purple coat and goes outside... and at some point during that scene you go "omg... no..." the last hint you get is that high angle shot with Londo looking upward and then we go straight into the vision of shadow ships flying over centari prime.

Kaz November 21st 07 09:46

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Brilliant beginning to the forth season. Loved Ivanova's explanation of the title's meaning when she talks about where 'the hour of the wolf' came from.

Estelyn October 9th 10 08:52

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
This episode is packed full of lots of good stuff! The biggest question is, of course, "Is Sheridan still alive?" It's interesting to see how much he really is the nexus, how everyone from Ivanova to the ambassadors to Delenn falls apart without him. And when watching this the first time, we weren't really sure he's still alive either - we could be seeing him in some kind of after- or between-life. I guess we would expect Delenn to keep up hope that he still lives, but even Zack wants to believe it.

For all of them, the question is that which confronts survivors of deceased family members/friends at all times and places: Do we continue to hope or accept the death and go on living? Sheridan faced that question himself after Anna's (supposed) death, and it was devastating to experience her return when he had finally fallen in love with Delenn.

G'Kar's voice-over is wonderful, showing him to be the spiritual leader, the only one who doesn't lose it all. And he is the one who thinks of Garabaldi and does something about it.

Nice play on words by Morden - he's only a "shadow" of himself. Interesting his answer to the question on whether Sheridan is still alive, "Which Sheridan?" That leads us to assume that Anna perished in the explosion, though we can't be sure - if Morden survived, so could she have.

The reference to the "eye" which is searching for them is strongly reminiscent of the Lord of the Rings! However, this one takes on a benevolent tone of voice (the father's), even sad. What does it seek to achieve?

The tragedy of Mollari continues - he gets what he wants when he no longer desires it. The confrontation with Cartasia is fantastically written and acted, and I agree, Krimmer does an excellent job of portraying someone so deluded. I'm reminded of Peter Ustinov's depiction of Nero, burning down Rome while thinking only of his own desire for immortality.

The beauty of this episode is that it answers some questions, leaves others mysterious, and raises lots of new ones. An excellent way to set the stage for the new season! Oh, and I like the "one line each" narration of the title sequence. One of the things that makes B5 unique is changes like that, something other shows would not have done.

Alioth April 8th 11 02:35

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 365354)
This episode is packed full of lots of good stuff! The biggest question is, of course, "Is Sheridan still alive?" It's interesting to see how much he really is the nexus, how everyone from Ivanova to the ambassadors to Delenn falls apart without him. And when watching this the first time, we weren't really sure he's still alive either - we could be seeing him in some kind of after- or between-life. I guess we would expect Delenn to keep up hope that he still lives, but even Zack wants to believe it.

Since I first went through B5 after buying the season DVD packages, I supected Sheridan must be still alive, since he was one of the characters pictured on the Season 4 cover. But I wondered if it'd be something like Sisko after the end of the DS9 series, [DS9 spoiler] where he supposedly would reappear from time to time as the "Prophets" sent him, but be in some kind of limbo outside time after his "death" falling into the Fire Cave on Bajor [/DS9 spoiler]. I'm glad JMS didn't do that with Sheridan.

Alexa June 26th 11 01:53

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Elric (Post 254203)
A good start to season 4, not quite A standard (in B5 terms) so a B from me. I think part of the reason for this is that this is part of the build up to Into The Fire - not all eps can be A rated, without the build up eps, the A eps would not be anywhere near as good IMO.

I love the scenes with Cartagia, he's just so crazy and Wortham Krimmer plays him so well. One of many examples in B5 where you just can't imagine another actor playing the role. I think it must very very hard to convincingly play a nutter, but he just did it so well (maybe too well ;)).

He played a nutbar on one of the soaps too...Another World, I think? He was scary there too..

Alexa June 26th 11 01:56

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
This ep is one of my all time favs. I`ve had an 'hour of the wolf' myself a time or two.

Why is there a sports poll at the beginning of this thread?

Sindatur June 26th 11 17:26

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexa (Post 371486)

Why is there a sports poll at the beginning of this thread?

Board upgrade put the Poll titles into a blender

Alexa June 27th 11 10:33

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Very strange. Thanks Sindatur

RW7427 July 6th 11 02:32

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Love this ep! :thumbsup:

Lennier's Tears February 14th 15 00:24

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
This is a very solid season opener. It has a somewhat different tone than the previous episodes. Everything looks darker still than season 3, especially those scenes in the imperial palace on Centauri Prime, and of course the bit at the end with Lorien.

Near the beginning of this episode, in the scene in council chambers where Ivanova is arguing with the league ambassadors, there's a great bit where someone (the Brakiri representative?) says "Sheridan is dead!" and Delenn counters with "You don't know that!". There is so much emotion in that "You don't know that!" It's great.

Same with Lyta apologizing for new Kosh. She plays it cool at first "Was there anything you wanted?" but then at the end, she is clearly greatly disturbed by the new Vorlon's ambassador's behavior as well.

C̶a̶l̶i̶g̶u̶l̶a̶ Cartagia is fantastic. He's a glorious madman. What a great character. Completely mad, and fabulous. I've always really liked Virini, too. I used to use one of his lines from a later episode as a signature ("I think we are well beyond pastels now"). And of course, Londo's realization of what he's going to have to do to "fix" this, and his comment about his relationship with Vir "you are the closest thing I have to a friend". It's all excellent stuff.

There's a lot of sadness in this episode, especially near the end, when the Sheridan rescue mission is a total failure. Even Delenn is losing hope.

What IS "the eye", exactly? The Shadows have a planetary defense system based on telepathy? That's an interesting choice, for sure.

I'm a big fan of Lennier's "initiating 'getting the hell out of here' maneuver" :)

I like the bit where it cuts from a shot of Ivanova's stat bar to Sheridan's stat bar dropping in the cave.

Springer February 23rd 15 18:51

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Have just watched this now as part of my rewatch. Really good stuff. At the time it was perhaps not the follow-up to Z'Ha'Dum that we expected and it's a fairly slow episode, but watching it after the fact you can see how JMS is slowly moving his pieces into position for the culmination of the Shadow War.

I always listen out for the music and in this episode Christopher Franke introduces some new sounds and motifs, especially for the Centauri Prime scenes, that I particularly like. I've not watched this episode too often since it aired but I had a wave of nostalgia watching it today, I think the music helped with that.

Londo was taking such a risk challenging the Emperor! He changes tact after this, it's really interesting seeing how he plots against the Emperor and definitely a highlight of this season. And even Vir has changed. Two seasons ago Vir would never have been willing to get involved in this kind of conspiracy, but now he steps up to the plate, but he'll have to deal with the consequences of that in a few epsiodes.

Lennier's Tears February 24th 15 00:37

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Ah yes, Vir. He is growing up, so to speak. But he retains his integrity, which is sort of amazing, considering his influences ...

I agree about Londo's plotting against the emperor being a highlight, also. It's excellent stuff.

hypatia February 25th 15 02:56

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
This is a great episode. Another "one of my favorites". :)

There is a lot of story and momentum building up, and this is a kind of depressing moment for our heroes.

It is almost like a pause, before a lot of big stuff starts to happen.

Mororless March 27th 15 07:38

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennier's Tears (Post 451114)
This is a very solid season opener. It has a somewhat different tone than the previous episodes. Everything looks darker still than season 3, especially those scenes in the imperial palace on Centauri Prime, and of course the bit at the end with Lorien.

I think this is really notable in the first couple of episodes of the season have a different tone to both the end of season 3 and what follows. As you say so many scenes are very darkly lit and the overall effect is I would say rather reflective of Sheridans position, a sense of things in the balance with mortality and hopelessly creeping from the darkness.

Quote:

C̶a̶l̶i̶g̶u̶l̶a̶ Cartagia is fantastic. He's a glorious madman. What a great character. Completely mad, and fabulous. I've always really liked Virini, too. I used to use one of his lines from a later episode as a signature ("I think we are well beyond pastels now"). And of course, Londo's realization of what he's going to have to do to "fix" this, and his comment about his relationship with Vir "you are the closest thing I have to a friend". It's all excellent stuff.
It is interesting just how much of a lift he is of Caligula, or at least the Robert Graves I, Cladius version of him that most people know. Londo is somewhat playing the Cladius role thoughout the opening few episodes humouring him when he sees just how dangerous he is and Cartagia has just the same mix of grand insane ambition and cowardice. There are little things like walking the streets himself engaging in debauchery or the ultra loyalty of his bodyguards as well, You could view that as unoriginal I spose but I tend to be more impressed that JMS found a way to plug that character into his storyline.

Looking at Krimmers performance for me it rather highlights that dispite Babylon 5 being a signpost on the way of todays "Hollywood TV" I think JMS also brought a love for the kind of more pulpy larger than life styles of sci fi/fantasy. I think its notable that most of his cast weren't film actors "slumming it" they were TV actors generally giving the best performances of their careers.

Lennier's Tears April 17th 15 02:18

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
I wouldn't go so far as to call Cartagia a "lift" of Caligula. I see obvious similarities, but there have been other such mad tyrant characters throughout human history. There's been lots of them in fiction, too. I don't think that necessarily makes any one such character "unoriginal".

When I look at the Centauri, I see Romans (well, I see some similarities with SOME aspects of Roman society during the early empire), because that's what I'm (somewhat) familiar with. I imagine someone with a different background might see something else, entirely! That is not to say I think Romans were NOT an inspiration when the Centauri were written. JMS exists in the same world we do, and, being from the US, would by necessity be influenced by stories from western history. But, there'd be a lot of other stuff in his background, too.

I love the whole Centauri "concept", one of the best alien races in TV history. I guess we know more about them than any other of the B5 aliens, except perhaps the Minbari. And I really love Cartagia ... I may have mentioned that a time or two :p

Mororless April 24th 15 20:47

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
The Caligula like character has IMHO become rather Shakespearian to the degree that I think its more interesting to see it given a different placement/bent rather than looking on it as lacking originality.

Beyond the obvious Roman influence in the Centauri I believe JMS has said theres more than a little late British Empire. Perhaps you could say a bit of a "what if" there showing what we'd have needed to become to hang onto the Empire maybe doing a deal with the Shadows/Nazi's.

Generally I think its that aspect of the Centauri that makes them one of the best TV alien races, I wouldn't say we know vastly more about them than other races in terms of history/tech/physically/etc but what we do get is more of a window into the mindset of the entire race and not a simplistic Klingon = Warrior way.

Lennier's Tears April 26th 15 23:44

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
I've often wondered about Klingon "counter culture". It seems highly unlikely that 100% of the population would be on board with the whole "HONOUR! DEATH! RARGH!" thing. I've done a small amount of Googling, but I've never been all that involved in Star Trek fandom (or, at all involved, really), so that's about the full extent of my research into that :p

I have similar questions about Centauri counter culture. It'd be interesting to explore .. I guess we get a TINY little bit of that in The War Prayer, with those two young Centauri who want to go against tradition and marry for love. Anyway, there must be Centauri, or groups of Centauri who don't do the "Centauri" hair and "Centauri dress". We saw emperor Turhan without his wig, it must not be THAT uncommon.

Related, I sort of wonder if Centauri become indistinguishable from humans if they dress "human". Indistinguishable from white humans, anyway ... Are all Centauri white, or white-appearing? That would be sort of odd, considering how light skin, light hair, and light-colored eyes evolved under some very specific circumstances on Earth. I guess the exact same circumstances occurred on Centauri Prime and Minbar ...

/tangent

Mororless April 27th 15 02:38

Re: EpDis: The Hour Of The Wolf
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennier's Tears (Post 451464)
I've often wondered about Klingon "counter culture". It seems highly unlikely that 100% of the population would be on board with the whole "HONOUR! DEATH! RARGH!" thing. I've done a small amount of Googling, but I've never been all that involved in Star Trek fandom (or, at all involved, really), so that's about the full extent of my research into that :p

I have similar questions about Centauri counter culture. It'd be interesting to explore .. I guess we get a TINY little bit of that in The War Prayer, with those two young Centauri who want to go against tradition and marry for love. Anyway, there must be Centauri, or groups of Centauri who don't do the "Centauri" hair and "Centauri dress". We saw emperor Turhan without his wig, it must not be THAT uncommon.

Related, I sort of wonder if Centauri become indistinguishable from humans if they dress "human". Indistinguishable from white humans, anyway ... Are all Centauri white, or white-appearing? That would be sort of odd, considering how light skin, light hair, and light-colored eyes evolved under some very specific circumstances on Earth. I guess the exact same circumstances occurred on Centauri Prime and Minbar ...

/tangent

There were obviously some Klingons who were less "honourable" than others.in TNG era trek, prior to that they weren't really portrayed as "space Vikings".

Again what makes the Centauri more interesting for me is that its not just "culture" that unifies them but reacting to the political situation with the decline of Empire and the legacy with the Narns. I think this works so well as it both bands the race together and gives a lot of room for difference of opinion/character, from say Refa, to Londo to Turhan. All essentially reacting to the same thing but doing so in very different fashions. The big advantage for B5 generally is I would say that the different races were designed very much to fit into the plot.

Going back to the conservation about Ivanova in the endgame thread I think the first couple of episodes of season 4 are interesting in just how different her reaction is compared to Marcus's "death". Here to me she comes across not just as someone who's dealing with a friends death but as much with a lot of there own purpose in life being taken away.


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