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-   -   EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=8811)

Alluveal February 16th 06 17:59

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
I'd pay for a little Narn opera, myself.

Elipsis October 29th 07 16:33

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
Giving this a solid B. The kiss at the end was nice to finally see (well we already saw it in WWE but it hasn't happened yet). The story of Lord Refa's demise was clever. At first I thought the twist was poorly thought out but upon rewatching, G'kar never actually does tell anybody that he is going to rescue Na'Toth... because he knows he's not from the start.


Why not an A? Among other reasons I was bothered by the premise of a struggle between Londo and Mulari in the first place. How can they both be struggling to "get their own people into positions of power"? Wasn't this already taken care of in Season 2? The scene in "The Long, Twilight Struggle" with Refa in the thrown room certainly implies they had achieved this goal... and it was even said that Cartaga is more or less a figurehead for Londo and Refa... so what gives with them competing for power in the royal court? While I imagine that Centari politics are volatile, this plot seemed a little contrived as it felt like a step backwards.

I also didn't like that the one time Vir finds out that Londo didn't do the terrible thing he expected him to do... he gets completely bent out of shape about it. I was thinking to myself... "This is the one time Vir should be proud of Londo."

Galahad October 29th 07 20:41

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GKarsEye (Post 252907)
B5 score CDs are popular items amongst fans. But what about a soundtrack album, featuring such hits as:

- And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place- B5 Gospel Choir
- That First Song that Franklin's Girlfriend Sings- Franklin's Girlfriend
- And We Will All Come Together (In a Better Place)- Byron and the Rogues
- Hokie Pokie- Londo Mollari
- Fishies- G'Kar
- Centauri opera excerpt- Londo w/ special guest Vir
- And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place (reprise)

What about "Modern Major General" by Marcus?

Jade Jaguar October 29th 07 23:48

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Elipsis (Post 311763)
Giving this a solid B.

I give it an A+. This is one of the most powerful and affecting B5 eps. The intercutting between the gospel choir, and Refa's demise, with the title song over all, is as good as it gets. Vir had every reason to be angry, he was sorely used by Londo, and was lucky he didn't come off much worse than he did.

Galahad October 30th 07 08:49

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade Jaguar (Post 311800)
I give it an A+. This is one of the most powerful and affecting B5 eps. The intercutting between the gospel choir, and Refa's demise, with the title song over all, is as good as it gets.

The intercutting reminded me very much of the last episode of the Prisoner (Fall Out), where you have Patrick McGoohan running around shooting everyone to the soundtrack of The Beatles "All you Need is Love".

Jade Jaguar October 31st 07 00:43

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad (Post 311827)
The intercutting reminded me very much of the last episode of the Prisoner (Fall Out), where you have Patrick McGoohan running around shooting everyone to the soundtrack of The Beatles "All you Need is Love".

Interesting. There is some similarity. The Prisoner, and that ep especially, are favorites of mine.

Ranger1 January 26th 08 10:24

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade Jaguar (Post 311863)
Interesting. There is some similarity. The Prisoner, and that ep especially, are favorites of mine.

the prisoner was awesome, and the end of the last episode is my favourite moment in the history of television, but concerning this episode, it is my favourite episode of B5 for all the previously mentioned reasons, with point of no return being the number 2.

one question though does anyone know what happened to brother theo and the monks after this?

Estelyn October 3rd 10 19:37

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
The scene that's been mentioned most often, the juxtaposition between the gospel song and Refa's death, was one of those I remembered most vividly when I first saw B5. The cutting here is excellent! The lyrics of the song fit the situation perfectly, and it is well sung too. I'm a church musician and have known this particular spiritual for many years, so I was aware that it was not written specifically for this show.

I also found it interesting that the lines of the sermon we hear just before this scene, about enemies, fear, etc. paves the way for what happens on the Narn homeworld.

Interesting too is the fact that G'Kar condones the violence used but does not directly participate in it.

Alioth June 30th 12 12:19

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GKarsEye (Post 252296)
Does no one care that he was actually innocent of the crime he was killed for? No? :)

I don't either, in the grand scheme of things, although I do think it's significant that this is obviously the main reason that motivated Londo to do it--it is the first reason given by the holo-Londo message*. If it weren't for that, or perhaps the power-rivalry developing between them that started with Londo half-poisoning him to get him away from the Shadows, it's very doubtful he would have gone through the trouble of doing something like this. So basically, it was mainly personal or selfish reasons that motivated this action--what Refa did to the Narns was used to motivate the Narns who would actually kill him, of course.

You could perhaps somewhat interpret the "don't kill the one who is already dead" prophecy to mean Refa--"half-dead" from that first half of the poison cocktail Londo gave him--in that the removal of Refa probably eliminated his most likely future rival for the throne, thus a big step toward dooming Londo to his Keepered Emperor fate. As I said elsewhere, I like to think there's some ambiguity and parallel possibilities in these prophecies. Note that Londo would later kill Morden ("dead" per Earth records) largely for the same personal reason... and that that may have furthered him along toward that keepered fate that could only be ended (and possibly redeemed) by death.

That all said...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade Jaguar
Vir had every reason to be angry, he was sorely used by Londo, and was lucky he didn't come off much worse than he did.

Well yeah, and Vir probably understood very well his selfish motivations for doing the operation (mentioning the power rivalry, but also probably aware of the Adira connection, if Londo told him after Adira's death). But at the same time, I would think that his relief that G'Kar didn't get set up to be captured and executed--and thus the actions he was coerced to do by Londo didn't contribute to that end--would far outweigh his being used for political maneuvering (the kind of shenanigans that have gone on everywhere in Centauri history). I too thought his lines were petty bitching given the perspective that until then, he thought he'd been forced to contribute to the great wrong of betraying and killing G'Kar. Unless he had equal qualms in being used to kill Refa, well... maybe, just as he felt very bad after killing Cartagia (although he delighted in seeing Morden's head on a pike, which while he had no hand in it, had wished on him with some relish).


*And I just noticed on rewatch that the camera cuts to a far shot of Refa as holo-Londo gives this reason--"you've killed the only one I really loved" or however he put it--so that we don't see what would probably be a very "WTF" expression on his face. I thought that was kind of interesting.

Lennier's Tears February 11th 15 05:44

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
A solid episode. There's a few things in it I'm not crazy about, but I agree with everyone here who said that the part where we see Refa's final moments cut with the gospel singing is excellent TV indeed.

That "Z Minus XX days" countdown adds some tension. I like it it.

I could do without the Reverend Dexter / Brother Theo rivalry, but it's not horrible. I do like that those religious leaders are all part of the resistance movement back on Earth, smuggling out information.

I could do without Reverend Dexter's "God created Eve" speech. I enjoy Sheridan's annoyed "so you want me to turn to God, is that it??" comment, only to have the conversation go into a different direction.

I tend to feel sorry for Vir in this one, so I'm with the posters who said they feel he's right to be angry. Yes, sure, he can be relieved that he wasn't implicated in something horrible, and G'Kar came out alright, but that whole thing still sucked for him. Londo threatening his family, being forced to "trick" G'Kar, then the whole telepath business... Poor Vir.

As for the gospel/Refa bit: It is interesting that newly enlightened G'Kar doesn't have a problem with brutal, bare-handed murder. The audience largely doesn't either. It's hard to feel bad for Refa but I'm uncomfortable with his death nonetheless. That is not to say I think that scene doesn't belong. I think it's excellent, as well as perfectly realistic. But, yea. Uncomfortable. I like the part where holographic Londo gestures with his arm, and Refa cringes away from the arm. A nice little detail.

As for the religious service, it's nice (and entertaining) to see both Brother Theo and Lennier participating in the singing :)


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