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-   -   EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=8811)

Elric February 13th 06 14:15

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
Almost an A, but not quite.

The scene where Refa is getting killed with the Gospel music always wierds me out (in a good way) - only JMS would have joyous gospel singing whilst the antagonist gets what he deserves.

Great stuff, but when compared to the likes of Severed Dreams & Z'ha'Dum (A eps), it does not quite have enough to put it up their with the truly fantastic episodes.

Alluveal February 13th 06 16:28

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
Hmph.. technomages!

GKarsEye February 13th 06 16:56

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
I actually like this one more than the Kick You in the Ass Change Everything in the Plot episodes like Severed Dreams. When the foundation is so strong, it's relatively kind of easy to make one of those huge episodes be good. But it's eps like Rock that make it all possible.

More importantly, this one just gets under my skin more. It's more sly and intricate and intimate. Come to think of it, this may well be a contender for my favorite episode.

aajay February 13th 06 17:00

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
Great ending...great music. Refa got what he deserved, albeit for the incorrect reason. Definite A.

Ninja_Squirrel February 13th 06 17:55

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
Quote:

More importantly, this one just gets under my skin more. It's more sly and intricate and intimate. Come to think of it, this may well be a contender for my favorite episode.

I agree.

As I've probably mentioned in the forums here before, seeing this episode when it aired for the first time was when I finally shook off some of my stubborn Star Trek geekitude and finally declared that Babylon 5 is better than Trek. As geeky as I was about Star Trek when I was in high school and college, coming to that conclusion was more significant than it my sound.

I think in terms of overall quality and excitement, there may be bigger, flashier, more arc-important episodes, such as Severed Dreams and Into the Fire. But, I would say I *like* this episode even better than WWE1&2, Shadow Dancing, Z'Ha'Dum, Into the Fire, Face of the Enemy, Endgame, etc. Off the top of my head, I might only like Severed Dreams more than this episode.

In fact, even if they're not usually considered the "best" episodes, it's often the quieter, more poignant episodes like Confessions and Lamentations and Passing Through Gethsemane that I put among my *favorite* episodes. In fact, Quality of Mercy is my favorite season one episode, and with competition from Babylon Squared and Chrysalis, I'm probably in the minority on that opinion.

Yeah, And the Rock Cried Out... is definitely one of my favorite hours of TV of all time.

Jade Jaguar February 14th 06 03:54

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
Quote:

I actually like this one more than the Kick You in the Ass Change Everything in the Plot episodes like Severed Dreams. When the foundation is so strong, it's relatively kind of easy to make one of those huge episodes be good. But it's eps like Rock that make it all possible.

More importantly, this one just gets under my skin more. It's more sly and intricate and intimate. Come to think of it, this may well be a contender for my favorite episode.

Well said!

Springer February 14th 06 13:36

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
I dunno, I just find "The Rock Cried Out..." just a bit dull. Londo's fascinating as always with his scheming (how come he was never any good at poker? He should be a master at it!), and Refa's death is a great scene, but on the flipside there's the subplot with Sheridan learning to appreciate Delenn and involve her in his life more which just bores me. And the ending is cheesy, and really with all the hi-tech technology on B5 couldn't some computer have worked out the Shadow's plan much quicker than Sheridan?

Its also the last time we see Brother Theo. I can't decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I'm edging towards good thing.

I know its a breather between all the intense episodes, and I'm all for having episodes that aren't full of explosions and 'end of the world' conversations (for example, I actually like 'By Any Means Necessary'), I just don't particularly identify with this one. Are people rating it just based on the scene with the gospel music? (And didn't JMS write that gospel music? After Walkabout he seems to be on a songwriting roll)

Wait, why are you all looking at me like that?! Someone has to not like it!

hypatia February 14th 06 14:30

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
Quote:

And the ending is cheesy, and really with all the hi-tech technology on B5 couldn't some computer have worked out the Shadow's plan much quicker than Sheridan?


If we could train computers to really think...

we'd create HAL. :)

Analysis is often something that, despite the wonders of computer technology, simply must be done by humans (at this point).

GKarsEye February 14th 06 14:45

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
No, that's cool. Your post got me to check out the detailled synposis to see if there's anything that I don't like. I found one minor quibble- that the clerics working as underground intelligence were from every major religion, one each. That's just so... I dunno, Sesame Street or something. Let's all hold hands and sing around the world kind of bullshit. Why did only the Baptist minister get a service? And he brought his gospel choir entourage with him?

But other than that my opinion of the ep stands. I'm also reminded of G'Kar's detailed instructions on how to kill Refa, when he's all up in his grill, "Leave the head intact for identification." Cold shit, dude.

Jan February 14th 06 15:05

Re: EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place
 
Quote:

(And didn't JMS write that gospel music? After Walkabout he seems to be on a songwriting roll)

No, JMS didn't write the gospel song. Some of the things he said about it from the Lurker's Guide:

Quote:

-Where does the title come from?
It's from an old gospel song/spiritual.

-Did Harlan Ellison suggest it?
No, as a rule, Harlan doesn't suggest titles; "Rock" came from the quote from the Bible, which was later made into a gospel song, used in the show. So it's a real song, though I did write 2 for "Walkabout."

-Why's it called that? Because it's quite appropos. How do we fit it? Not a big deal. Longest title up to now was one I did for MURDER, SHE WROTE, a quote from Moby Dick, "To The Last Shall I Grapple With Thee."

-The song in "Rock" is an old gospel song. I've always had a soft spot for old gospel songs and spirituals because of their wonderful use of language and imagery, and you can dance to 'em. Not that I dance, but the theory is there, at least.

Jan


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