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-   -   EpDis: War Without End Part One (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=8735)

vacantlook January 16th 06 20:01

EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for War Without End Part One
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for War Without End Part One

GKarsEye January 17th 06 01:51

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
'ts alright ;)

Springer January 23rd 06 12:06

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
I watched this again last night before commenting on it. Bearing in mind that you I shouldn't judge this episode without considering the second part too, I still think that this first part is too slow and talky. Loads and loads of exposition, (admittedly quite interesting exposition), and maybe it would have benefitted if John Schuck had been around to play Draal, but it seems to be waiting to pack everything into the second episode. Still, its great to see Sinclair (although his costume is rubbish) and Zathras, and the message from the future is pretty ominous. But, a part of me wishes that we could have seen that great battle for real, based on the scene in Babylon Squared.

The SFX are pretty good though- has the White Star looked better than in this episode?

The bits in the future on Centauri Prime are the best parts. In a sense, that matters to the five year storyline more than the Sinclair/Valen plot does. War Without End almost feels like an aside to the main plot that has been building up throughout the season. JMS said that he found these the most difficult episodes of the season to write, and it shows a little bit. Still, it does have one of the best time-travel plots seen on TV even if the execution isn't that perfect in my mind, and I'm looking forward to going back and watching the second part tonight. I'd give this first part a B-.

hypatia January 23rd 06 12:20

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
I'm always a bit surprised when I hear people lament B5's lack of battles.

B5 was always about so much more than space explosions and special effects. You can remove all of the effects, as far as I'm concerned, and these would still make fantastically interesting episodes.

Springer January 23rd 06 15:42

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
Quote:

I'm always a bit surprised when I hear people lament B5's lack of battles.

B5 was always about so much more than space explosions and special effects. You can remove all of the effects, as far as I'm concerned, and these would still make fantastically interesting episodes.

While I love a great space battle, I appreciate what you say. But the battle that we glimpsed in Babylon Squared seemed to be the battle to end all battles, and what was important about it was that our characters, and the station itself, were in the thick of it. In terms of storytelling and characterisation it could have been a really rich story to tell, much like the battle in Severed Dreams, which was memorable because of the emotional intensity. For instance, it seemed to be the culmination of Garibaldi's story-arc (of course, his story went down a different path, happilly for him). And, when we first saw that scene in Babylon Squared, we had no idea who they were fighting, and the mystery added to the scene.

Plus, what we saw in Babylon Squared looked like nothing I've ever seen on TV since. It would have been really epic! Instead, it amounted to nothing more than a dream.

hypatia January 23rd 06 22:35

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
Ah, well, that's what happens when you muck about with time. ;)

RW7427 January 24th 06 00:53

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
Quote:

I'm always a bit surprised when I hear people lament B5's lack of battles.

B5 was always about so much more than space explosions and special effects. You can remove all of the effects, as far as I'm concerned, and these would still make fantastically interesting episodes.

I agree! ;)

Elipsis October 22nd 07 15:41

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Springer (Post 250732)
While I love a great space battle, I appreciate what you say. But the battle that we glimpsed in Babylon Squared seemed to be the battle to end all battles, and what was important about it was that our characters, and the station itself, were in the thick of it. In terms of storytelling and characterisation it could have been a really rich story to tell, much like the battle in Severed Dreams, which was memorable because of the emotional intensity. For instance, it seemed to be the culmination of Garibaldi's story-arc (of course, his story went down a different path, happilly for him). And, when we first saw that scene in Babylon Squared, we had no idea who they were fighting, and the mystery added to the scene.

Plus, what we saw in Babylon Squared looked like nothing I've ever seen on TV since. It would have been really epic! Instead, it amounted to nothing more than a dream.


Even in BČ, it was pretty clear to me that they were losing that battle. The shadow invasion and destruction of B5 were NOT something that was meant to turn into reality. It might've been a hell of a thing to watch, but it also would have meant that almost all of our characters are dead.

Estelyn September 17th 10 22:46

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
Wow, so few posts for such a momentous episode?! This is one that I remember vividly from the first time I saw the series on TV. I love Sinclair's dramatic entrance in the scene, a hooded, mysterious stranger at first. His new title and Marcus calling him "Ranger One" show us that he transcends his ambassadorial role. And his reputation for enigmatic utterances, described by Marcus, is very amusing. Oh, and have you noticed - whenever Delenn makes an entrance on the show, Minbari-typical music plays, a few notes on the harp. The same or similar music lets us know that we are on Minbar in those scenes.

I also like the look into the Great Machine - and of course, Zathras! Hard to choose which of his quotes are best; "Zathras not understand but Zathras do" reminds me of Lennier's statement to Delenn when arriving on the station, about obedience, not understanding, being necessary.

Interesting effect in the changed colours of the scene when the bomb explodes.

"Hello old friend", "goodbye old friend"... What a great way to bring Sinclair back!!

hypatia September 19th 10 01:28

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
I can't help but wonder if the computer changeover didn't lose some posts, but I don't recall it doing so. I may have just forgotten, too.

Yes, to me this is the episode that "makes" Babylon 5. It is daring, surprising (everyone wakes up to the "solution" at a different moment, but it isn't something you can predict in the first ten minutes of the episode.

Other than "Waiting for Gesthemene" [sorry, I never could spell that name], these are my favorite episodes.

It has been a walk down memory lane watching your posts, by the way. I may soon have to rewatch it again, myself. Maybe I'll do a B5 marathon over the Winter break.

Lennier's Tears February 9th 15 06:04

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 365062)
Wow, so few posts for such a momentous episode?!

I was about to say exactly the same thing :p I'm guessing all the comments are in the Part II thread. The two episodes are really one, and even though I just watched both of them, I'm already having trouble remembering exactly which bits are in I and which in II. Still ... I think in some ways I'm even more fond of Part I than I am of Part II.

I'm always very excited to see Sinclair again. Getting to see Minbar is pretty neat, also. Then, slowly getting to see the Babylon Squared stuff falling into place .. nice. The Centaur Prime plot is very interesting indeed ...

I'll take the rest of my comments to Part II :)

freshair3 April 9th 15 16:46

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
I'll be watching this tonight after Babylon Squared and before WWE part 2. I'm going to friend's house and we're having curry and watching B5. Yay!:thumbsup:

freshair3 April 10th 15 07:54

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by freshair3 (Post 451419)
I'll be watching this tonight after Babylon Squared and before WWE part 2. I'm going to friend's house and we're having curry and watching B5. Yay!:thumbsup:

Actually it was pizza but it was a good evening.

hypatia April 11th 15 02:03

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
Babylon 5 goes with many meals. :bolian:

Lennier's Tears April 17th 15 00:49

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by freshair3 (Post 451422)
Quote:

Originally Posted by freshair3 (Post 451419)
I'll be watching this tonight after Babylon Squared and before WWE part 2. I'm going to friend's house and we're having curry and watching B5. Yay!:thumbsup:

Actually it was pizza but it was a good evening.

Aww, I'm kinda envious! I've been re-watching all by myself. I don't really have any nearby B5 fan friends, these days. I do have food, at least! :D

deaded April 28th 15 08:11

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
I'm very confused. Why is the thread about WWE but the poll above is for Severed Dreams. Is it me or my browser? Something is screwy.

deaded April 28th 15 08:18

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
But back on topic, yes, this episode (and WWE2) changed EVERYTHING for me! This was the episode that made me go back and watch it from the beginning and suddenly I started to get it; that it is a novel, not a short story.

This was when I fell in love with B5

Lennier's Tears April 28th 15 17:29

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
I believe something went wrong during a board move or a software overhaul. It happened well before my time, but I've seen comments here and there. Judging from your join date, it clearly wasn't before YOUR time, but perhaps after your most active time :p

Several other threads appear to have a poll about a different episode. I'm not sure if it's just the name that is messed up, or if results have also gotten scrambled. I haven't voted in any of the polls because I find it too difficult :p

I agree that WWE is sort of a game-changer. Suddenly you realize how everything is connected. It's a pretty amazing experience. You can't really re-live that after the first time, but it's still a great set of episodes.

deaded April 30th 15 11:40

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
Yeah, it's been a couple of years. I just never whined about it before. I wish they would fix it. I makes it seem like nobody cares :'(

hypatia May 7th 15 03:12

Re: EpDis: War Without End Part One
 
I think the board needs to stay pretty low-maintenance. And I"m not sure there is a fix, apart from starting new poll threads.


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