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-   -   EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=8703)

vacantlook December 23rd 05 20:37

EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for A Late Delivery From Avalon
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for A Late Delivery From Avalon

Jan December 23rd 05 21:00

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
A lovely episode. This is one of those episodes that's not arc-heavy but which adds texture to the series. Franklin's 'I know what's best' attitude gets a swift kick, G'kar displays the Quixotic streak we'd seen when he had Catherine Sakai rescued in Season One and Delenn perhaps realizes that she's not the only one who feels guilty about their part in the E/M war.

Michael York was a superb Arthur and his chemistry with Andreas/G'Kar was great. The silent scene where Delenn takes Excalibur from him is wonderful. The music was perfect.

"And they made a very satisfying 'THUMP' when they hit the ground!"

Jan

Shaal Mayan December 23rd 05 21:30

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
A is for excellant one of my top eps that isn't arc based and I love Micheal York great job.

RW7427 December 24th 05 05:14

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
C. It's not a bad ep, but I think it's one that we could do without.

Joseph DeMartino December 25th 05 03:35

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
B. A very good episode, wonderful showcase for G'Kar/Andreas Katsulas and a show thematically tied in very closely to the arc, even if the events are less central to it. But the explicit connectoin to the Arthur legend, which informs so much of Sheridan's story, also raises it aboe the "not bed but we could live without it" category. As Jan mentioned, this is one of the epsiodes that looks every different on second or third viewing, in the light of revelations about Delenn and her role in the war that a new fan watcing the epsiodes in order would not have.

And they made a very satisfying THUMP!

:)

Joe

KoshFan December 25th 05 21:46

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
B, on the strength of "Sir G'Kar" and the brief Kosh cameo at the end.

GKarsEye December 27th 05 00:43

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
B or C

The premise of the show is pretty retarded IMO, but the actors and the setting saved from being from just completely embarassing to entertaining.

Chilli December 27th 05 13:55

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
C I think .. seemed like such an utter waste to have Michael York on the show and to do a concept that seemed so silly (though fitting to the show, yes). Though he and Andreas definitely were great in it, of course :D

Joseph DeMartino December 27th 05 14:56

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
Quote:

The premise of the show is pretty retarded IMO

The premise reminded me of one of the very best M*A*S*H episodes, the one where an Air Force bombadier wakes up one day believing he is Jesus Christ.* I don't think either show was "silly", and there's nothing odd about the notion that Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder can and does produce effects up to and including completely dellusional belief systems. Is believing you're King Arthur any stranger than believing you're Jesus Christ or Napoleon? There are plenty of people in mental hospitals around the world who believe both, not to mention the various Sherlock Holmeses, Jeannes D'Arc and Cleopatras that are probably floating around. If you think nuts in costume are inherently implausible you've obviously never seen footage of a Klan rally or attended an SF convention. :) And apart from that, what was silly or implausible or whatever the objection is about the episode?

Regards,

Joe

* Which contained the following classic, and theologically quite sound, exchange:

Doctor: Is it true that God answers every prayer?

"Jesus Christ": Yes. Sometimes the answer is, "No."

Sindatur December 27th 05 15:49

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
I think the episode was very well done and had some definite high points, I just don't personally care much for it. So, on the strength of the episode I'd give it a "B", but, figuring in personal bias, I lower it to a "C".

GKarsEye December 27th 05 15:55

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
Quote:

If you think nuts in costume are inherently implausible you've obviously never seen footage of a Klan rally or attended an SF convention. And apart from that, what was silly or implausible or whatever the objection is about the episode?

I never said it was implausible, that is in the logical or scientific sense. I said it was retarded- you know, the slang way of using the word.

I just think it comes off stupid. It feels like JMS just really wanted to somehow stick in the King Arthur legend... again (apparently the horrid Grail episode wasn't enough).

It's the same thing with Jack the Ripper- the idea of a Vorlon popping into 19th century London to abduct a serial killer is pretty lame. I remember reading JMS writing about the Ripper murders- the guy obviously is into the subject, so, like the Arthur thing, he was looking for a way to involve these characters he likes and had to concoct some absurd premises to put them on a space station in the 23rd century. Star Trek did the same thing and it was also generally dumb.

I'm almost surprised Gandalf and Number 6 never appeared on the show also.

And then thinking about the logic of the episode makes me cringe. Ok, the guy has PST- for 10 years? Has he been thinking he's King Arthur the whole time? If so, he's galavanting about the galaxy picking fights with people and ranting like a lunatic and nobody stops or kills him or puts him away? Or did it just suddenly pop up recently. Can that happen?

And then he recognises Marcus' British accent, which of course sounds nothing like a British accent would have in King Arthur's time. So the guy is an obsessed Arthur fan but wouldn't know that?

Either way... people... it's King Arthur... in freakin' space! WTF?

vacantlook December 27th 05 16:07

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
Quote:

And then thinking about the logic of the episode makes me cringe. Ok, the guy has PST- for 10 years? Has he been thinking he's King Arthur the whole time? If so, he's galavanting about the galaxy picking fights with people and ranting like a lunatic and nobody stops or kills him or puts him away? Or did it just suddenly pop up recently. Can that happen?

And then he recognises Marcus' British accent, which of course sounds nothing like a British accent would have in King Arthur's time. So the guy is an obsessed Arthur fan but wouldn't know that?

With how crazy and screwy the human mind reacts, I'd say it's quite possible that his PTSD flared up recently causing the falling further into the disorder and the taking on of the Arthur persona. As for the accent, like the guy would know what a British accent sounded like in King Arthur's time anyway in order to be able to recognize it. His brain just adapted everything in the real word to fit his King Arthur persona, including the way he heard people speak.

KoshFan December 28th 05 05:46

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
I thought Franklin hypothesized the whole delusion was triggered by the impending anniversary.

Elipsis October 15th 07 19:34

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
I gave it a C. It was an ok story but pretty forgettable in the grand scheme of things. Also a little over the top.

mattikake October 15th 07 21:36

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
I liked the eposide in a kinda poking-fun at sci-fi kinda way. Lighthearted. Andreas' acting when drunk in the bar was perfect. I'm sure he really was wasted for that scene! lol

Estelyn September 15th 10 21:12

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
Some amusing aspects, some good acting, some nice character moments, but not much by way of story arc - this episode is OK, yet not a favourite of mine.

Michael York does very well in his role. I can't help but wonder who was represented by the dream knight who stabbed him in the back?

Marcus has the best lines: "I take great comfort in the hostility and general unfairness of the universe." Also "Better the illusions that exalt us..."

Dr Franklin is again playing God, forcing a healing for which the patient is not yet ready. The fact that it turns out well doesn't justify that decision, imo.

Interesting parallels between the Minbari war and King Arthur's battles...

Delenn as the Lady of the Lake, Kosh as Merlin, etc. - interesting parallels as well.

Oh, and contrary to my previously expressed thoughts, G'Kar does resort to violence again in this episode...

Sindatur September 16th 10 01:55

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 365043)
Some amusing aspects, some good acting, some nice character moments, but not much by way of story arc - this episode is OK, yet not a favourite of mine.

Michael York does very well in his role. I can't help but wonder who was represented by the dream knight who stabbed him in the back?

Marcus has the best lines: "I take great comfort in the hostility and general unfairness of the universe." Also "Better the illusions that exalt us..."

Dr Franklin is again playing God, forcing a healing for which the patient is not yet ready. The fact that it turns out well doesn't justify that decision, imo.

Interesting parallels between the Minbari war and King Arthur's battles...

Delenn as the Lady of the Lake, Kosh as Merlin, etc. - interesting parallels as well.

Oh, and contrary to my previously expressed thoughts, G'Kar does resort to violence again in this episode...

The first time I watched this one on original broadcast, it didn't strike me much. I guess I was too focused on wanting the arc to advance (it was the only offering for a week, afterall, Heh). The second time was better, after that, I actually enjoy the episode now, because of the comparisons to the characters. same with TKO, despite the Ivanova moments, that one took several watchings, before I could appreciate it as a whole, rather than just fast forwarding to the Ivanova moments

G'Kar resorting to violence, nah, no more than the slamming book later in the series.G'Kar was protecting King Arthur as a Knight of the roundtable

Lennier's Tears February 8th 15 06:38

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
This is a pretty solid standalone episode, I think. I can see how there might a moment of dread as one first starts watching this episode and thinks "Oh no, a King Arthur episode??", but as always, it's not quite that ...

The acting is great, and the music is very fitting. I like King Arthur and Sir G'Kar as a team, and drunk G'Kar is very amusing. I especially like the Minbari war background, and Delenn as the "Lady of the Lake". It makes sense that only she can "absolve" him and make him snap out of it.

Sindatur makes a good point above, about what things were like when you only got one episode a week. I had quite forgotten what it was like when we had to actually wait for episodes to come out! I never watched Babylon 5 on TV, I watched it on VHS as the episodes were released on tape. That means we got multiple episodes to watch every time a tape arrived, but we to wait something like a month between tapes (I can't quite remember). I can imagine that in the middle of the third season, when tension is high, a non-arc episode might be a bit annoying. We've been so spoiled by DVD sets and Netflix :p

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to mention. The name of this episode is so great! (Again :p)

hypatia February 8th 15 13:50

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
It was interesting to see how G'Kar absolutely thrilled at having a clear-cut "evil" to fight.

It also is one of the episodes that touches on how humanity is dealing with psychology and people who are disturbed by this time in our history.

Not much has changed. We're pretty ignorant about that, even the guy who had extensive medical training didn't handle the situation well, at all.

Lennier's Tears February 8th 15 23:44

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
You make a good point about Dr. Fraklin's inability to deal with this situation. It hadn't occurred to me until you mentioned it, but why is it even Dr. Franklin who is treating this patient? Obviously he took an interest because he happened to be there when the guy drew his sword at customs, but ... isn't there someone more qualified to deal with this? If 23rd century medical school is anything like 21st century medical school, Dr. Franklin would have some basic psychiatry knowledge, but still, presumably a station that size would have someone who actually specialized in that sort of thing. Or a psychologist, perhaps. When that mad bomber was on the loose in Convictions, an explosives expert (a character we'd never seen before, and never saw again) appeared on Garibaldi's side, rather than Garibaldi trying to play explosives expert himself.

But, even lacking an actual specialist, you'd think Dr. Franklin would be better at dealing with this... He was in the Minbari war, himself. He must have treated tons of people with war traumas, PTSD, survivors guilt, ... in the 13 or so years since the war. I would hope that Earth Force has developed ways of dealing with these things .. But even if they didn't, Dr. Franklin is a pretty smart guy .. why is he not better at this?

He seemed extremely impatient with this patient. Is that just his character? His constant need to fix things? Or is it his stim problem?

hypatia February 9th 15 02:05

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
Now there is an excellent question. Is it the personality/upbringing of Doctor Franklin or the author that we are seeing? I see it as an indication that humanity just hasn't changed all that much. Franklin has a good heart, but maybe he should have consulted someone. Even he admits to that, in the end.

It just didn't seem as serious a delusion as it was, perhaps. And Franklin has a history of taking on all challenges with extremely unrealistic expectations for an outcome.

It's one of the things we love about him. :)

Springer February 10th 15 10:26

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
I agree, I think it is just Franklin's character. Certainly before his walkabout, he had a sense of thinking he's always in the right and can do no wrong, like we see in Believers. It's arrogance, in a way. And his bedside manner has never been perfect, made worse by the stims.

His walkabout changes all that.

hypatia February 16th 15 02:34

Re: EpDis: A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
The whole walkabout, and how it didn't end in a golden shower of revelation or inspiration of some noble kind. He got a kick in the head, and a really solid one, by his own alter-ego.

Now that's some kind of a Freudian freakout, if there ever was one. :bolian::devil:


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