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-   -   EpDis: Sic Transit Vir (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=8686)

vacantlook December 15th 05 00:24

EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for Sic Transit Vir
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for Sic Transit Vir

RW7427 December 15th 05 01:04

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Good stuff! I wouldn't give it an A because I reserve that grade for the heavyhitters like Z'Ha'dum, Severed Dreams, The Long Twilight Struggle, and Sleeping in Light, but it's very good nonetheless!

Springer December 15th 05 16:01

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
This is one of the few episodes of B5 where the humour really works. Most of the time I don't get JMS' humour, but I think its really funny. And its a good Vir story. So I give this a strong B.

Shaal Mayan December 15th 05 16:10

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
B God Vir story and really brings more of his character than before showing he and mollari are worlds apart.

GKarsEye December 15th 05 16:11

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
LOVE this one. Daughter of a war criminal's twisted lack of morality. This one really hits me as I draw parallels with people I've known.

Mike G December 15th 05 19:10

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
One of my favorites in the whole show.

Boxie December 16th 05 19:17

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
:D I really liked it, always a romantic, :o I admit that sometimes I watch it just for the "near-miss" kiss. I also like the way Sheridan takes that guy out in the hallway! *sigh* What a guy...

Vir was just soooo cute in this episode! He bumbled and fumbled around, so insecure but so thrilled with the possibility that this beautiful woman was crazy about him... you could almost feel the butterflies in his stomach! And his love interest, with her sweet smile, gentile demeanor....:eek: :D and that big, bad knife!!

I thought Claudia was good too, I thought she was believably tortured by dreams of her teeth falling out and showing in C & C naked! :eek: :lol:

Then there's Londo's bug, wasn't he great in that scene? :D He was going to get that sucker no matter what and I was just sitting there cheering him on! I hate bugs! :lol: I use a long swatter, though; there's no way I'm getting that close! :lol:

PillowRock December 16th 05 20:16

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Quote:

: I use a long swatter, though; there's no way I'm getting that close! :lol:

So far, I've never felt the need to use a sword to go after a bug in my home. ;)

Joseph DeMartino December 16th 05 21:00

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Anyone familiar with The Lady's Not for Burning by Christopher Fry (one of JMS's favorite plays - and mine) will recognize LIndisty as a sort of funhouse mirror reflection of Alizon Elliot - an innocent young girl who is also intended to be the bride in an arranged marriage. I think JMS had fun bouncing his twisted futuristic comedy off characters and situations from Fry's twisted medieval one, to the good of the script.

Regards,

Joe

"We have to kill it before it develops language skills"

RW7427 December 17th 05 02:36

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Quote:

Then there's Londo's bug, wasn't he great in that scene? He was going to get that sucker no matter what

Ya gotta love Londo and the bug! ;)

Londos6 December 19th 05 15:54

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Quote:

Ya gotta love Londo and the bug! ;)

That's one of my absolute favorites, although it looks more like a turd than a bug to me. :D

Joseph DeMartino December 19th 05 23:02

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Quote:

That's one of my absolute favorites, although it looks more like a turd than a bug to me. :)

Hey, c'mon. Bugs have feelings, too. Especially that one given its accellerated rate of evolution.

Or - waitiaminnit! That's it! Mr. Hanky in Space :D Another episode of Babylon Park.

Regards,

Joe

Londos6 December 19th 05 23:27

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Quote:

Hey, c'mon. Bugs have feelings, too. Especially that one given its accellerated rate of evolution.

Or - waitiaminnit! That's it! Mr. Hanky in Space :D Another episode of Babylon Park.

Regards,

Joe

:lol:
Maybe it's just Mr. Hankey. After all, it is almost Christmas (doesn't apply to this B5 episode though, but it's a good fit). :D

Boxie December 21st 05 01:07

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Quote:

Hey, c'mon. Bugs have feelings, too.

:eek: They do?? Are you sure, Joe??

:( Great....now I'm going to have to start apologizing before I stomp, swat, smash... :rolleyes:... crush...beat up...blow up...fumigate...exterminate, or otherwise obliterate the creepy little things! :lol: I hate bugs!!! :lol:

RW7427 December 21st 05 11:50

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Sounds like you'd be the perfect fit for Londo. ;)

Sindatur December 21st 05 15:04

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
I doubt any human being would be the perfect "fit" for Londo. ;)

(Oh, wait...Can I say that since this isn't NC17 forum?)

RW7427 December 21st 05 18:04

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
She could just get "six" and then she'd be all set. :devil:

**Volunteers no further information for fear of the thread being sent to NC-17**

;)

Jan December 21st 05 18:10

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Yeah, if this were NC-17 I'd be able to mention what Londo and G'Kar did in the first draft of "The Exercise of Vital Powers". ;-)

Jan

Boxie December 21st 05 18:58

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Quote:

She could just get "six" and then she'd be all set.

**Volunteers no further information for fear of the thread being sent to NC-17**

Quote:

Yeah, if this were NC-17 I'd be able to mention what Londo and G'Kar did in the first draft of "The Exercise of Vital Powers". ;-)

This is right about where I got lost, I think.... :D but that's okay, that kind of thing happens to me all the time! :lol: Carry on!

Jan December 21st 05 19:05

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Quote:

This is right about where I got lost, I think.... :D but that's okay, that kind of thing happens to me all the time! :lol: Carry on! ;)

That draft of 'The Exercise of Vital Powers' was the practical joke JMS played on Peter and Andreas in retaliation for a joke they played on him at a convention. JMS will include it in the free Volume 15 of the script books.

Jan

Boxie December 21st 05 19:20

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
:D Ohhhh! I get it! :D

Joseph DeMartino December 22nd 05 04:01

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Quote:

Quote:

Hey, c'mon. Bugs have feelings, too.

:eek: They do?? Are you sure, Joe??

:( Great....now I'm going to have to start apologizing before I stomp, swat, smash... :rolleyes:... crush...beat up...blow up...fumigate...exterminate, or otherwise obliterate the creepy little things! :lol: I hate bugs!!! :lol:

Wall, that reminds me of a joke...

But you'll have to go to the adult's only NC-17 section to read it. (The joke itself is not really NC-17, but chances are the responses it draws will be. :))

Regards,

Joe

Boxie December 22nd 05 13:16

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Quote:

Wall, that reminds me of a joke...

But you'll have to go to the adult's only NC-17 section to read it. (The joke itself is not really NC-17, but chances are the responses it draws will be. :))

You know, :) I went into the NC-17 section once a long time ago. I was on another board and heard about this one so I came over, signed up, and "lurked" around so I could report back to everyone...Boy, did I get a shock!! :lol: :lol:

Elipsis October 15th 07 15:43

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
B+ from me. What on the surface appears to be a silly comical episode actually has some very important character development.

Ambassador Chum February 28th 09 01:46

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
EDIT by vacantlook: Post content removed due to being too much blatant, insulting homophobia.

Estelyn September 15th 10 20:09

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
We've seen gradual changes in Vir over time, and it's good to have an episode devoted primarily to his character development. A few comments:

Interesting that a Centauri tells Vir that Londo is trying to protect the government from the truth. The following joke is corny, sure - intentionally so.

A very funny moment is when sinister music and suspenseful camera angles trick the viewers into thinking something dangerous is going on - and then it's bugs! Especially funny in that context - seeing Londo swotting with his sword and shouting "Die!".

Lyndisty is a most interesting character; her pink clothing and high-pitched voice are deceptive, as is her girly conversation. What's behind it is all the more scary because it's sugar-coated. Amusing to see Vir trying to hide behind Londo when introduced to her; he's an idealist in love as well - a radical set of mind in a society of arranged marriages. I guess they don't quite see eye to eye on tokens of love - and what really happens to that Narn?

Interesting too that the motive for murder is not where it was first searched for...

Alioth July 28th 11 03:04

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
One thing kind of strange, is why or how it can still be such a secret that Centauri males have six "thingees". Humans have been in contact with them for close to 100 years IIRC, so I would think such a thing would be notoriously common knowledge among humans by this point (probably with a lot of weird porn on the market involving it). I mean, all it would take is one human discovering the truth, for everyone to get wind of it, considering how sexual matters so titillate us. Also, the basic anatomy of most species would be known in the exobiology community anyway, and again, such a fact would be certain to become popular knowledge from there given the... nature of it.

So it seemed strange that this knowledge seemed such a secret from outsiders. A Minbari like Lennier maybe ("The Quality of Mercy")--and the scene where Londo tells him is hilarious--but someone like Susan, who's probably heard all sorts of salty jokes in her time (whether she wanted to or not), and at any rate hasn't been sheltered from such (other)worldly knowledge? Yet it seems she never knew this.

(Of course, this is all expositional (pun intended?) knowledge for us, so I guess it's all good (definitely some funny dialog). And it may have actually been pretty common knowledge, just that Susan didn't happen to know it for whatever reason.)

One thing I wondered is how Narns are equipped--G'Kar being the horndog he is for both Centauri and human females (and cuckolding Londo :devil:).

Jan July 28th 11 11:07

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
WARNING: This may give you a visual image you'll never be able to scrub from your brain.

Really, I'm warning you...

From the infamous joke version of "The Exercise of Vital Powers":

Quote:

INT. LONDO'S BEDROOM

Londo and G'Kar are in bed together, in the afterglow (we
should be fairly discreet about this).

LONDO
I didn't hurt you did I?

G'KAR
No...no, it was wonderful.

LONDO
I hadn't stopped to realize, this
being your first...I hadn't meant
for all six at once, but as we got
going....

G'KAR
It's all right...don't worry about
it.

LONDO
You realize that people are going
to talk.

G'KAR
Let them.
I warned you...

Jan

vorlonlovechild July 28th 11 11:29

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
zomg.

Jade Jaguar August 1st 11 02:09

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Trying to think of the Zarg now, so that it fills my consciousness... blotting out all else...

hypatia August 1st 11 02:53

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade Jaguar (Post 372557)
Trying to think of the Zarg now, so that it fills my consciousness... blotting out all else...

I could read back, to see what inspired this reply. But it's more fun to just ask:

is this some new self-torture action, meant to discipline the mind? :wtf:

Jade Jaguar August 2nd 11 04:50

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Just scroll up a bit. It was Jan's description of Londo and G'Kar's tryst.

Alioth July 21st 12 10:45

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Was (future Regent) Virini's joke to Vir sort of a foreshadowing?

Q. What is more dangerous than a locked room full of angry Narns?
A. One angry Narn with a key!

(Besides the next scene showing the locked room full of Narn refugees, no doubt angered by the grievous things done to their world.)

G'Kar had noted (I believe previously) that "humans were the key" to the future of the galaxy... and just a couple episodes after this one, he is finally let into Sheridan's inner circle, and thus given this "key", in a way.... And in a way, he becomes very dangerous to Centauri designs on the Narns once he has this "key". (And "the key" might also be his own enlightenment, which allows him the patience and strength to thread the needle that he must (cooperate with Londo against Cartagia, bearing all that that entailed) to ultimately free his world.)

It seemed like a throwaway line at first, but even a little joke by a flighty court popinjay could have significance.

Galahad July 21st 12 14:07

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alioth (Post 399743)
Was (future Regent) Virini's joke to Vir sort of a foreshadowing?

Q. What is more dangerous than a locked room full of angry Narns?
A. One angry Narn with a key!

(Besides the next scene showing the locked room full of Narn refugees, no doubt angered by the grievous things done to their world.)

G'Kar had noted (I believe previously) that "humans were the key" to the future of the galaxy... and just a couple episodes after this one, he is finally let into Sheridan's inner circle, and thus given this "key", in a way.... And in a way, he becomes very dangerous to Centauri designs on the Narns once he has this "key". (And "the key" might also be his own enlightenment, which allows him the patience and strength to thread the needle that he must (cooperate with Londo against Cartagia, bearing all that that entailed) to ultimately free his world.)

It seemed like a throwaway line at first, but even a little joke by a flighty court popinjay could have significance.

I love your thinking there. Nice logic. :)

Teep Trick July 22nd 12 20:07

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Londo using that sword to go after the bug somehow makes me think of Vir taking (that same?) sword after the Drazi vendor that ,hey!>, bugged his bags in the Zocalo.

Lennier's Tears February 8th 15 03:29

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
An episode all about Vir? What an excellent idea! :D Another really clever episode name, too!

I've always liked the bit with the bugs in Londo's quarters. It makes sense in the context of Babylon 5 breaking away from Earth, and not everything operating quite as it should. Mostly it's just funny. I still fairly regularly use the phrase "There are more of you!!"

We've seen the Vir character develop and he really gets to shine, here. The bit in the teaser is great, where we see him in a room full of Narns, just after Virini makes that joke about a room full of angry Narns. I've only recently started noticing the guilty look on Vir's face when Londo asks him if he has anything interesting to report. I guess before I was too distracted by the Lyndisty storyline, because this happens just after Londo hides her in his bedroom.

I love the whole Abrahamo Linconi thing. Vir trying his best to do something good. I feel so bad for him when he's trying to get Ivanova to stop talking about it in front of Londo, but of course that's not happening.

The awkward conversation between Vir and Ivanova is pretty funny, but I'd agree with Alioth upthread that it seems unlikely she wouldn't have known about the Centauri's six appendages. But, funny. Vir being his usual awkward bumbling self. It works.

Lyndisty is interesting. "A true Centauri" indeed. I'm kind of disappointed in Vir in that he is still sort of interested in her after he finds out that she has singlehandedly murdered something like a thousand Narns. Isn't the whole point of his character that he's not that kind of Centauri? I guess he's more conflicted when he finds them attractive? :p

[Off topic: Nevermind, it's been taken care of, thank you!]

RW7427 February 11th 15 20:07

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Lyndisty is kinda creepy :lol:

Lennier's Tears February 11th 15 21:19

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RW7427 (Post 451093)
Lyndisty is kinda creepy :lol:

Kinda?? :p

hypatia February 12th 15 01:12

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennier's Tears (Post 451055)
Lyndisty is interesting. "A true Centauri" indeed. I'm kind of disappointed in Vir in that he is still sort of interested in her after he finds out that she has singlehandedly murdered something like a thousand Narns. Isn't the whole point of his character that he's not that kind of Centauri? I guess he's more conflicted when he finds them attractive? :p

Maybe it's just Vir's version of the old story of someone (usually a woman) who falls for a guy who seems to be the biggest jerk imaginable.

Do you think Vir would imagine he would "change" her? :rommie:

Lennier's Tears February 12th 15 03:20

Re: EpDis: Sic Transit Vir
 
I think he was imagining exactly that, in that scene at the end, where they are telling each other the other is "confused" or something to that effect :)

She's also quite young (I think?) and a product of her environment. I can see how someone (Vir) could excuse her horrible views on that basis, but actual murder is a bit harder to ignore or justify. How could she ever atone for that? I think young Vir is just not thinking straight :)


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