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-   -   EpDis: Severed Dreams (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=8663)

vacantlook November 28th 05 07:45

EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for Severed Dreams
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for Severed Dreams

Jade Jaguar November 28th 05 08:35

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
One of the most powerful eps there is. It still makes my skin crawl at times.

Elric November 28th 05 13:11

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
I agree competely, probably the best ep, and not just for the action (although that was great), but there was some intense drama too. Some skin crawling moments (for me at least):

1. Delenn breaking the Grey Council - wow this just blew me away.

2. When the ship rams the other one (sorry, forget the names). For some reason, this really got to me.

3. When the troops breach the station - no sound effects, just music. A fabtastic bit of television - very moving.

The list could go on, but I think this episode redifned TV (more so than earlier eps) for the sheer scale and change in direction that the show took after the events that happened.

Great stuff!

KoshFan November 28th 05 13:37

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
A whole ton of really great moments. There's a reason this won a Hugo. But we must, of course, carry out our fanly obligation.

On three:

"This place is under our protection. Withdraw, or be destroyed."
"Negative, we have authority here. Do not force us to engage your ships."
"Why not...?"

Shaal Mayan November 28th 05 14:21

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Ecellant does not give this episode justice.Great scenes and moments and some memorable lines like the tongue lashing she gives the grey council.One of many reasons this ep won a Hugo.

RW7427 November 28th 05 15:47

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
I love this ep! Sometimes I still get goosebumps when I watch it! The battle scenes in and outside the station are just awesome! And I love the part where Delenn comes with that Minbari fleet to save the day. I even have what she says to the captain of that EarthForce fleet memorized. :lol:

Sindatur November 28th 05 15:48

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
LOL, I was kinda wondering if a poll was even neccessary for this one. Shoulda just marked it excellent and been done with it. Is there anyone who doesn't think this is at least one of the best of the whole series?

aajay November 28th 05 17:33

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Best of the Best.
The look on Corwins face and the tone of his voice when the 2nd set of Earthforce ships arrivals always makes me shiver. And of course, Delenn's rescue speech.
Though it did seem a bit unbelievable that all the Earthforce ships left without even testing her.
The end scene in the Zocolo gives me goosebumps too

KoshN November 28th 05 19:08

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Quote:

And of course, Delenn's rescue speech.
Though it did seem a bit unbelievable that all the Earthforce ships left without even testing her.


Seeing her as she made that speech, knowing what a Whitestar and two Sharlins could do to your force of a couple of Omegas and a few support ships, "testing" her could easily result in all the people on the EA ships ending up dead. If somebody that pissed and earnest had a loaded 44 Magnum with its hammer cocked, finger on the trigger, and pointed at your head, would you "test" 'em?

I guess the EA Captain just wasn't suicidal.

PillowRock November 28th 05 19:19

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Quote:

I guess the EA Captain just wasn't suicidal.

Yes.

It is worth remembering that anyone who had been around long enough to have reached a rank that would put them in command of a task force (and likely even any of the individual ships, at least the bigger warships) would also have been around long enough to have been a veteran of the Minbari War. They would *know* that their force had absolutely no chance of even putting up a tough fight against Delenn's force.

The only way to "test" her resolve, beyond just claiming juristiction and trying to order her away (which already had failed), would involve firing on either her ships or the station. Once that happened, Delenn's resolve wouldn't be an issue. Her ships would return fire as a matter of course. Once *that* happened the EA force was as good as dead .... and all of the EA command level officers *knew* it.

Boxie November 29th 05 03:26

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
:D Severed Dreams is absolutely one of my favorite episodes! There are so many wonderful scenes in this one. I especially like the scene where Sheridan is talking to his Dad.

He knows, :( they both know, they may never speak again...and yet they're trying to be so strong for each other. It's just a really wonderful scene. :D

aajay November 29th 05 17:19

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
True, I agree that it would have been suicidal, but this was the new improved "cocky" Earthforce.
I would have expected at least one attempt to call Delenn's bluff.

Sindatur November 29th 05 17:38

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
The old cocky Earthforce tried that 19 years earlier and the Human Race was almost wiped out.

Joseph DeMartino November 29th 05 17:42

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Quote:

True, I agree that it would have been suicidal, but this was the new improved "cocky" Earthforce.

It was the old improved cocky Earthforce (fresh from its decisive intervention in the Dilgar War) that started the war with the Minbari that almost led to the extermination of humanity. Clark's influence on Earthforce notwithstanding, none of the senior officers (all of whom would have served in the war, all of whom would have lost shipmates, friends or family to the Minbari) would have dared attack a Minbari. Earthforce still had no way to reliably lock onto even an ordinary Minbari warship, had inferior drives and handling characteristics and that's without considering the unknown capabilities of the White Star.

Quote:

If somebody that pissed and earnest had a loaded 44 Magnum with its hammer cocked, finger on the trigger, and pointed at your head, would you "test" 'em?

Great, now I keep hearing Mira's voice finishing that speech by saying, "So, you gotta ask yourself, 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"

:)

Joe

RW7427 November 29th 05 18:08

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Quote:

Great, now I keep hearing Mira's voice finishing that speech by saying, "So, you gotta ask yourself, 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"


:lol: :lol:

Do you think she could manage an Italian accent? Or at least an Italian from New York City? ;)

PillowRock November 29th 05 18:39

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Quote:

Quote:

Great, now I keep hearing Mira's voice finishing that speech by saying, "So, you gotta ask yourself, 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?"


:lol: :lol:

Do you think she could manage an Italian accent? Or at least an Italian from New York City? ;)

Or, more to the point, a Clint Eastwood rasp (while squinting, of course). :cool: :lol:

ETA: Should we just go for the aliterative nickname? "Dirty Delenn" ;)

A_M_Swallow November 29th 05 21:36

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
This was the start of the civil war. The Earthforce captains were just following orders rather than fighting a real enemy.

PillowRock November 29th 05 22:57

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
This was *after* the whole fight that included the boarding of the station and the destruction of entire EF destroyers on both sides.

The commanders of that second wave of ships *had* to know that before jumped into normal space at B5. Even if, through some wierd miracle, they didn't know it before jumping in ..... there was no way for them *not* know it instantly upon seeing the wreckage floating around the Epsilon 3 area.

They were already in a shooting war, and they knew it.

They just wanted no part of a shooting war against Minbari cruisers, if it was at all possible to avoid it.

hypatia November 30th 05 00:46

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Wow! :eek:

23 votes for "A" and not one single vote for anything else? :D :cool:

vacantlook November 30th 05 01:02

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
It is indeed impressive, hyp!

fisheggs November 30th 05 01:37

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Quote:

Wow! :eek:

23 votes for "A" and not one single vote for anything else? :D :cool:



Silly girl, you are surprised? There is absolutely nothing in this ep that was subpar in any way. This and "No Surrender, No Retreat" are my personal most watched.

Besides which, I'd bet Anthony would just erase the results of someone who's obviously deranged. :devil:

Elric November 30th 05 12:23

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Quote:

Should we just go for the aliterative nickname? "Dirty Delenn" ;)

Hmmm, "Dirty Delenn", now there's a thought ;) but that maybe a discussion for NC-17.

hypatia November 30th 05 13:41

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Ah, forgive me for saying it, but I seriously doubt Antony would want to go to that kind of trouble, Fisheggs. He's not exactly that obsessed with the polls, I'm betting. ;)

What surprises me is that episodes I found quite good others hated completely. :lol: I even know people who are less-than-enthusiastic about the last episode.

So yea, I was a bit surprised. It's quite neat, though. :D

RW7427 November 30th 05 16:22

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Well dear, there are some eps that just knock everyones' socks off. This is one of them. :lol:

Boxie November 30th 05 21:07

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Quote:

Well dear, there are some eps that just knock everyones' socks off. This is one of them. :lol:

Truer words were never spoken, RW...It was so good I'm still looking for one of my socks! You haven't seen it have you? It's a little white one, there's a little bow on the...nevermind! :o :lol:

:lol: Sorry...just a little joke..carry on! :cool:

hypatia November 30th 05 22:53

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Quote:

Quote:

Well dear, there are some eps that just knock everyones' socks off. This is one of them. :lol:

Truer words were never spoken, RW...It was so good I'm still looking for one of my socks! You haven't seen it have you? It's a little white one, there's a little bow on the...nevermind! :o :lol:

:lol: Sorry...just a little joke..carry on! :cool:

:lol:

Check under the couch. Especially if you have pets. ;)

RW7427 November 30th 05 23:20

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
I wouldn't look under the couch. The dust bunnies are a killer! :eek:

Boxie December 1st 05 01:17

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Quote:

I wouldn't look under the couch. The dust bunnies are a killer! :eek:

:eek: Dust bunnies!? They wouldn't dare!!! :D But you might be right about my dog, she definitely looks guilty about something. I guess I'd better take a look around to see if anything else is missing...like a lamp... or a chair... :D :D

Mike G December 1st 05 05:27

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Funny Story about this episode. My Dad and I once watched Messages From Earth, Point of No Return, and Severed Dreams in one sitting, (which is really an awesome way to watch them on DVD.) By the end, my Dad would not belive that we had only been watching for 2 and a half hours! I explained it was 3 45 minute episodes, he insisted it was longer. :)

B5_Obsessed December 1st 05 17:54

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Quote:

Best of the Best.
The look on Corwins face and the tone of his voice when the 2nd set of Earthforce ships arrivals always makes me shiver. And of course, Delenn's rescue speech.
Though it did seem a bit unbelievable that all the Earthforce ships left without even testing her.
The end scene in the Zocolo gives me goosebumps too

JMS has mentioned that the EA ship's withdrawal was a little forced, but that the episode was so pressed for time that it had to be cut that way.

And yes, EXCELLENT. All around.

I always liked Zach's tender treatment of Garibaldi after the battle. It threw an extra bit of realism into the scene (perhaps a bit too much realism for JD, though :p)

RW7427 December 2nd 05 04:01

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Didn't Jerry really break a bone when they were filming that? They show him hobbling with a cane later in the ep, but I thought I heard he broke his arm or something.

Ninja_Squirrel December 2nd 05 04:47

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
He did break his arm filming that episode. JMS has said that the scene where Zack is helping Garibaldi sit down after the battle, that Garibaldi's arm moves in a way un-natural for an intact arm. His injury is worked into the next episode where he's wearing a sling & cast on his arm.

RW7427 December 2nd 05 04:59

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Thanks. That's what I thought. :)

Londos6 December 2nd 05 15:37

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Read the episode description at The Galactic Gateway for that episode. It really is an interesting story about JD.

macmaccaman December 2nd 05 16:36

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
I'm the one that voted this a C. Sorry! I just think that theres so many better moments in B5, and feel this is overated. The brutal off screen dispatch of Hague (though, not B5's fault!) is annoying. The ending, with that hand kissy thing and the applause makes me cringe. I've always found the big space battle things a bit of a let down, and I do prefer the dialogue and actors to the big battles. Meh, its not just a protest vote.

Londos6 December 2nd 05 17:22

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Quote:

The ending, with that hand kissy thing and the applause makes me cringe. I've always found the big space battle things a bit of a let down, and I do prefer the dialogue and actors to the big battles. Meh, its not just a protest vote.

I've always been kind of chilled by the ending, where they cut to the "Traitors can't hide" poster. But that's not the best part of the episode by a longshot anyway.

hypatia December 2nd 05 17:45

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Well, at 30 versus 1 so far, I'd say it's one of the favorite episodes of the fans who post here. :)

Of course, not every series or every episode is going to be liked by every person.

Boxie December 3rd 05 21:36

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Quote:

I've always been kind of chilled by the ending, where they cut to the "Traitors can't hide" poster. But that's not the best part of the episode by a longshot anyway.

I liked the ending, too. That poster brought everything to a dead stop for me. The kiss on the hand had left me feeling all :) warm and fuzzy, but that feeling faded with the realization that there were tough times ahead....

Springer December 6th 05 11:42

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
Add another one to the list.

Best. Episode. Ever. Of any TV series, in fact.

Boxie December 6th 05 19:45

Re: EpDis: Severed Dreams
 
I agree! It's so hard not to vote twice...I really like this one, but I'll be good, I promise... ;)


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