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-   -   EpDis: The Fall Of Night (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=8435)

RW7427 March 8th 09 01:18

Re: EpDis: The Fall Of Night
 
Me too. Not only was there alot of action, drama, and serious stuff, but there were comedic times such as this that helped contribute to the greatness of the show.

A_M_Swallow March 8th 09 15:33

Re: EpDis: The Fall Of Night
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamer (Post 337538)
Excellent episode, no matter how many times I watch it.

Aside from the obvious over how Sheridan's jump looked, I always found it more curious how no-one looked at Sheridan differently, being saved by an angel. Granted, such a creature might gather attention quite differently than even someone who's falling through the air, but to no-one to even mention this later on as they got time to go through what happened... well, it's curious at the least. Definitely something that should've been handled at least somehow.

In a later episode aliens come to Babylon 5 to worship the "angel".

RW7427 March 9th 09 02:11

Re: EpDis: The Fall Of Night
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by A_M_Swallow (Post 337743)
In a later episode aliens come to Babylon 5 to worship the "angel".

"Poke the plant." ;)

dencor March 13th 09 04:48

Re: EpDis: The Fall Of Night
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RW7427 (Post 337773)
"Poke the plant." ;)

have to love the drazi.

dreamer March 23rd 09 18:04

Re: EpDis: The Fall Of Night
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by A_M_Swallow (Post 337743)
In a later episode aliens come to Babylon 5 to worship the "angel".

You're right!

Can't see how I managed to forget that since I love Zack and hey, it's a great scene :)

Still, it puzzles me to no end that JMS pretty much skipped this whole thing, considering how big a thing religion was in his scripts. I don't think I'm exaggerating in the slightest if I say that something like this happening there would've changed great many things, starting from the "neutral" position of the worlds of the League of the Non-Alligned worlds towards B5. Also, I would've expected at least similar behaviour towards Sheridan that he got after he returned to B5 with Lorien later on.

I guess it would've changed things too much and they let it slide.

KoshFan March 24th 09 20:38

Re: EpDis: The Fall Of Night
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamer (Post 338675)
I don't think I'm exaggerating in the slightest if I say that something like this happening there would've changed great many things, starting from the "neutral" position of the worlds of the League of the Non-Alligned worlds towards B5. Also, I would've expected at least similar behaviour towards Sheridan that he got after he returned to B5 with Lorien later on.

The neutral worlds were willing to help with B5's defense, and came together to form a fleet; a lot of this was hard work and diplomacy on Delenn and Sheridan's part, and a lot was the timely intervention of the Vorlons, but maybe some of it was because some species felt the place was blessed?

And I thought Sheridan did get some similar behavior towards him -- which annoyed Garibaldi no end -- to the point that a bunch of alien ships came to his rescue on Earth in Season 4. Sure, Delenn talked them around, but they came to help one man.

Estelyn September 3rd 10 16:15

Re: EpDis: The Fall Of Night
 
I must confess, I never noticed whether or not Sheridan's hair moved - since others have discussed that problem at length, I will comment on other matters.

Two people comment on Londo's change - Vir says the ambassador looks different, and Garibaldi says he"s "not the Londo I knew". I find the latter's attitude interesting - he recognized Londo's vulnerability underneath the mask of arrogance and harshness.

There are two mentions of B5 as hope - the only hope for the Narn ship, and Ivanova's "last best hope for victory" near the end. I like having her voice as narrator - it foreshadows the title sequence of the next season.

Another foreshadowing - Sheridan's speech about pride in his uniform. From future events, we already know that it won't be restored, but replaced.

I do like the fact that Sheridan once again beats Earth government by going by the book and quoting it at them.

Lots of significant details - Londo standing alone at the reception, for example, no one talking to him. And the fact that he sees nothing is interesting - the Shadows block out the light.

I like the two different terms for the Vorlons, used by Delenn and Sheridan - "guiding" vs. "manipulating". Kosh does seem to be a ladies' man, doesn't he?! It's Delenn and Lyta who are fascinated by him, while the men are sceptical.

I don't always notice the soundtrack, but this time I was aware of the angelic sounding music when Kosh comes to Sheridan's rescue. I liked the wing effect that was used - nothing quite definable, nor really solid. I must say though, I can't help but wonder about what happens in the eyes of the beholders here - are their eyes or their brains manipulated by the Vorlons? He can't himself appear as more than one thing at the same time, can he?

vacantlook September 3rd 10 16:45

Re: EpDis: The Fall Of Night
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 364766)
...I must say though, I can't help but wonder about what happens in the eyes of the beholders here - are their eyes or their brains manipulated by the Vorlons? He can't himself appear as more than one thing at the same time, can he?

If I remember correctly, it is alluded to being telepathic manipulation from vorlons that make them look different to different people. And that doing so is exhausting to a vorlon; at the beginning of season three, Kosh had been spending some time recovering on board his ship.

Alioth May 13th 12 10:50

Re: EpDis: The Fall Of Night
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 307813)
It was hinted at that the Centauri once worshipped the Shadows as gods, so the Vorlons probably never bothered to alter them, what with their distaste for touching anything a Shadow had already touched.

I missed that hint (that they had worshipped the Shadows) in all my viewings and readings. Was there something I missed (I often do find some new thing in repeat viewings)? Unless it had to do with
Spoiler for Technomage Trilogy (a big one):
their first emperor being blessed by technomages, and the association therein.
In the time of B5 anyway, they were a polytheistic race with various household gods that seemed to be purposed for bestowing various "worldly" advantages, rather than teaching larger (and more universal) lessons of ideals and such--and I got the impression that was long part of their cultural history. They didn't seem to be idealistically inclined one way or another, but lived almost strictly for their own pleasures and ambitions--which would probably make them easy pickings for Shadow manipulation, without any direct worship per se (or even awareness of them).

And the Centauri had telepaths--and Vorlons were generally responsible for the emergence of telepaths in at least most of the younger races (although I think it was said to be "all" of them that had them, but I'm not sure). Were there naturally-evolved exceptions in some races? Otherwise, the Vorlons did alter them, in that way.

Alioth May 13th 12 11:32

Re: EpDis: The Fall Of Night
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 338768)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamer (Post 338675)
I don't think I'm exaggerating in the slightest if I say that something like this happening there would've changed great many things, starting from the "neutral" position of the worlds of the League of the Non-Alligned worlds towards B5. Also, I would've expected at least similar behaviour towards Sheridan that he got after he returned to B5 with Lorien later on.

The neutral worlds were willing to help with B5's defense, and came together to form a fleet; a lot of this was hard work and diplomacy on Delenn and Sheridan's part, and a lot was the timely intervention of the Vorlons, but maybe some of it was because some species felt the place was blessed?

I'm not sure just how many directly witnessed the "divine intervention". Of those that only hear about it second-hand, there probably was a lot of skepticism, along with some believers. That there were some who were there, who saw or claimed they saw nothing (Londo might not have been the only one) would of course feed that skepticism as well.

I think the level of attention, number of pilgrims, and reveredness for B5 and Sheridan we do see was probably par for course for what such "miracles" (believe them or not) generally get. After Sheridan's "resurrection" later on, that attention and reverence grew though. What we're seeing are the beginnings of what might turn into a religion later on (I think "Deconstruction of Falling Stars" alluded to a religion around Sheridan's "divinity" growing further over the coming centuries--IIRC--and the "trinity" of "The One" did seem to imply that a religion would grow around their "great story", as I don't think it was coincidence that JMS presented it that way). But religions don't always (or even usually) take off among the masses overnight. Christianity didn't.


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