B5TV.COM

B5TV.COM (http://www.b5tv.com/index.php)
-   B5.world (http://www.b5tv.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
-   -   EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=8392)

vacantlook August 22nd 05 14:30

EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for The Long, Twilight Struggle
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for The Long, Twilight Struggle

Oatley1 August 22nd 05 15:40

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
Ah, yes - The Long, Twilight Struggle. After 'The Coming Of Shadows', my second favourite Season 2 episode. It's the sense of helpless foreboding that surrounds this episode that really makes it for me - you just know it's going to end badly. The Shadows really begin to come to the fore, prefiguring their central role in Season 3.

And Londo starting to sense that he really doesn't have the backbone to see his decisions all the way through, but feeling that he can't get off the treadmill.

Simply awesome.

Shaal Mayan August 22nd 05 16:09

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
A truly superb episode.

vacantlook August 22nd 05 16:23

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
Oh, I sure agree; I think this is a very excellent episode. There's just so much heavy stuff in it for both Londo and G'Kar. Very impressive.

(One rather unimportant peeve of mine though is that I wish the revelation of the Rangers to Sheridan at the end had had more Rangers in Ranger uniform though. :p )

RW7427 August 22nd 05 20:17

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
Definetly an A episode! :cool:

Jade Jaguar August 23rd 05 01:30

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
I'm being stingy with my A's, but this one gets one. Very powerful. The shot of Londo watching the bombardment of Narn is one of the best in the series.

Enlightened_GKar August 23rd 05 02:58

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
A all the way.

The Narn-Centauri plot is so striking that even the plot regarding the great machine on Epsilon III seems unimportant. The shouting match where Londo demands that G'Kar stand down from the advisory council is pure gold, especially with G'Kar's unforgettable rebuttal.

This is one of the most quotable episodes of the entire series.

And I admit, I am a fan of Londo's exchange with Lord Refa concerning the bombardment of Narn:

" (Londo in horror) Mass drivers?! They have been outlawed by every civilized planet."
" (Refa, unphased) These are uncivilized times."
"We have treaties!"
"Ink on a page!"

hypatia August 23rd 05 06:35

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
Yes. This is an episode that screams "there is no turning back now". Call it fate or call it the momentum of events, it really feels, for some reason, as if everything before has been prelude, and this is where "it" really begins.

RW7427 August 23rd 05 07:33

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
Yeah, hyp's right. With the Shadows helping the Centauri and the Narn homeworld falling, you begin to get a sense of foreboding, like this is the point where things begin to go badly for everyone, not just the Narns.

Springer August 23rd 05 10:37

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
This is a brilliant episode. I love the battles between the Narn and the Shadows, Londo watching the Centauri pummel the Narn homeworld, and Londo and G'Kar's confrontation in the council chambers afterwords. Fabulous stuff.

The riot in the Zocalo is rather comical though, and the extras brought in to play the Rangers in the final scene don't really look the type to be highly trained, spiritual warriors preparing for the war against the Shadows, but that's just a minor quibble.

One thing that had always puzzled me though. The great 'Forbidden Planet'-esque chambers in Epsilon 3 seem to have had a makeover since season 1. Are we to assume that Draal redecorated, of did the SFX people forget what it looked like? I much preferred the season 1 look. Also, its gone from being five miles below the surface to just three miles.

The_One August 23rd 05 13:30

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
This is actually my favourite episode of the entire 5 year run. It just pushes all the characters to their limits, moves the plot along, has some of the best writing, and is brilliantly directed.

The bombing of the Narn homeworld and the council scene later in the episode almost always move me to tears. Andreas and Peter put on a striking performance, and by the end of the episode, it's been re-inforced that it *is* indeed the best television show ever.

I'm glad I got this one on DVD, as my VHS was really beginning to show its age ;)

RW7427 August 23rd 05 17:29

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
Quote:

One thing that had always puzzled me though. The great 'Forbidden Planet'-esque chambers in Epsilon 3 seem to have had a makeover since season 1. Are we to assume that Draal redecorated, of did the SFX people forget what it looked like? I much preferred the season 1 look. Also, its gone from being five miles below the surface to just three miles.

Draal probably redecorated. :lol: Even he looks different than he did in season 1. (Different actor of course. ;) )

deaded October 20th 05 12:06

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
This episode is where I first noticed greatness.

hypatia October 20th 05 15:27

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
The picture of Londo looking out the window at the devastation he has brought about and G'kar's quote make this one of the great episodes of the series, that is for sure.

"No dictator... no invader... can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free."

RW7427 April 24th 06 06:17

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
I watched this ep tonight, and even after having seen it more times than I can count, I still get goosebumps from watching it! :eek: The battle scenes are superb!

B5_Obsessed April 26th 06 18:16

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
Quote:

I watched this ep tonight, and even after having seen it more times than I can count, I still get goosebumps from watching it! :eek: The battle scenes are superb!

As do I, every time. <brrrr>

KoshFan May 1st 06 14:24

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
Every time I see the Narn fleet trying to escape, I keep thinking, "Come on... come on..." even though I know they won't make it.

RW7427 May 1st 06 16:37

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
I just think, "You guys are toast". :lol:

darth_librarian May 10th 06 12:00

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
I think this episode confirmed for me how much I loved this show, i remeber taping it and watching it half a dozen times. The two main effects sequences are superb. The plot threads of Sheridan's conspiracy and the Narn war coming together was also a great moment...

Estelyn August 31st 10 22:07

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
This is definitely one of the top episodes of the second season! The overall impression is that of character development - the attention is spread out rather than concentrated on one or two persons. Sheridan and Delenn's relationship is developing, not always so obviously as to be emphasized, but noticeably. Delenn is being shown as a strong character, what with the leadership of the Rangers.

Lord Refa's role is developed and his machinations and behind the scene scheming are shown. Londo is torn between two attitudes - the lighting during his scene with Refa is starkly contrasting, showing the juxtaposition of light and shadow.

G'Kar is developing away from the militant leader to a more spiritual role - he is praying, not fighting, during this episode. He is more thoughtful and sad than we've seen him before.

There are two "too late"s in this episode, a theme that pops up frequently. G'Kar's warning to his people is too late, they cannot or will not change their plans at the last minute. Refa tells Londo it's too late for him to reconsider his actions.

Does anyone know if there was a reason for the change in actors for Draal? The explanation given does pick it up and integrate it into the story.

I must chime in with the many who have mentioned the scene where Londo looks out of the spaceship window - that is brilliant acting and directing, and writing too.

The candles going out and being snuffed at the end are a wonderfully symbolic image!

Lennier's Tears February 1st 15 22:54

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
I watched this last night. It's such a fantastic episode. I've said good things about every episode I've commented on so far, but this one really stands out. That scene with Londo and G'Kar in the council chambers is Babylon 5 at its very best.

I love all other Londo and G'Kar scenes in this too. The Narn making a tragic mistake in their desperation, G'Kar's inability to do anything about it. Londo's realization that things are quite out of control. That scene of him watching the bombardment is indeed quite powerful.

I love everything Draal and Epsilon III. I actually hadn't noticed the 3 miles/5 miles thing or any changes to the interior of the planet scenes. I'll have to pay more attention next time!

The Rangers storyline is great too. Babylon 5 becoming the Fortress of Light. A line has been drawn!

RW7427 February 4th 15 04:23

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
The story of Londo and G'Kar in B5 is probably one of the best of the whole show. In season 1 the two wanted to kill each other, and wouldn't have hesitated given the chance. By the end of season 5, their relationship had developed to the point where you could call them friends. They came to an understanding that both of them cared deeply for their worlds and their people and that they did what they did for that purpose. They actually were able to forgive each other personally for the things they did to each other.

Lennier's Tears February 4th 15 04:29

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
I would agree with that. Babylon 5 is pretty great at character development overall, but the Londo and G'Kar characters, and the evolving relationship between the two are really fantastic. I don't think I've seen anything like it on any other TV show... certainly not any other sci fi show.

RW7427 February 6th 15 03:02

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennier's Tears (Post 451022)
I would agree with that. Babylon 5 is pretty great at character development overall, but the Londo and G'Kar characters, and the evolving relationship between the two are really fantastic. I don't think I've seen anything like it on any other TV show... certainly not any other sci fi show.

Me neither!

Mororless March 29th 15 18:08

Re: EpDis: The Long, Twilight Struggle
 
I remember back at the time what always caught me by supprize in B5 was how quickly things moved. In this case I rather got the impression the war was going to drag on for along time, maybe years and be the backdrop of much of the series.

I consider myself a pretty massive fan of the likes of DS9 and BSG as well but I felt that along with having a "plan" maybe B5's greatest advantage was that JMS did not drag out his climax's too long. He takes his time setting the scene and building the drama of course but he resolves a plot point whilst the intensity is still at its greatest rather than dragging it over multiple seasons.

I'm not sure I would agree with the idea that this is where the real story starts, for me this episode marks the point at which things start to rebound. The downturn in the fortunes of the "good guys" that started at the end of Season 1 and got worse with Coming of Shadows really kicks in during the episodes before this and hits rock bottom with the fall of Narn. G'Kar's response to Londo is IMHO really the moment where things start to turn around as Sheridan highlights nicely at the end of the episode.


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:18.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2008 B5TV.COM