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-   -   EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=8336)

Garovorkin May 12th 08 02:32

Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations
 
Confessions and Lamentations, as episodes go it was real downer. The Markan who was dr Franklins mentor , infecting himself sacrificing himself to help chart the course of the disease and give his people hope and the sad irony was that his sacrifice was for nothing in the end. Dr franklin finding a treatment to late to save the Markans on the station. The government of the Markans choose to stick their heads in the sand rather then deal with the problem for fear of being turned out of office. yeah they sound a lot like us don't they.:(

Truth_Seeker May 12th 08 12:59

Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hypatia (Post 320855)
Well, how do we know that Delenn represents the "average" Minbari?

Yes Delenn is not the typical Minbari.They are usually not interested in the problems of other races.

For example Shakiri from "Moments Of Transition" wouldn't do what she did, but Draal would do it the same way he replaced Varn in the Great Machine.Maybe it's a matter of personality.

mattikake May 13th 08 10:53

Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Springer (Post 227150)
JMS said at the time that it wasn't an AIDS allegory, but based it on what happened with rhe Black Death. But with the way AIDS is wreaking havoc across Africa, and the way people there are seem to be ignorant of it, maybe its becoming more and more of an AIDS allegory. I don't know, just a thought.

The reason JMS compares it to the Black Death is the atheists take on blind faith that the disease was a punishment from god and only the "clean" and repentant would be selected for survival. Huddling together in mass penitence of course only makes such in infectious disease spread faster and does nothing towards finding a cure. A direct sci-fi parable to the Black Death.

The AIDS issue isn't so much about ignorance or a willingness not to believe what's happening infront of your own eyes, it's more about the facilities to actually DO something about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarForBram (Post 227170)
I guess I just didn't like the subject material. The blind religious faith of the Markab annoyed me. I guess this is why I hated "Believers" too. I have a low tolerance for people who blindly let religion dictate their choices in life.

So do I, and I loved this episode (gave it an A btw) for exactly this reason. Believers was plain annoying, although very convincing (if the kids parents annoyed you then the ep probably hit the nail spot-on), but CaL was much more in-your-face and devastating to an entire civilisation. Kinda what can happen if you persist with blind fatih even with evidence everywhere and even the technology to do something about it - it's what you believe, your state of mind, that matters most. All religious people should be made to watch this episode as an important message by example... :)

It's the first hard-hitting ep of B5 where you get to see an entire race die as a hint of the lack of mercy (and realism) that is to come.

Jade Jaguar May 14th 08 00:37

Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mattikake (Post 321039)
The reason JMS compares it to the Black Death is the atheists take on blind faith that the disease was a punishment from god and only the "clean" and repentant would be selected for survival.

As an atheist, who doesn't take anything on "blind faith," or believe in "punishment from god," I kinda think you misspoke... :eek: :lol:

hypatia May 14th 08 05:19

Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations
 
I kind of wondered about that, too. I assume he meant "theists". :wtf:

Jade Jaguar May 14th 08 06:07

Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations
 
As would I.

mattikake May 14th 08 12:30

Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations
 
Sorry I meant the whole episode is the atheists telling of the story (of the insanity) of the blind faith in the face of *a* Black Death type disease.

Probably easier just to read it as "theist" though!

Garovorkin May 14th 08 12:54

Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations
 
If this had been a typical Trek episode Dr Franklin would have found a cure, saved his Markan friend and mentor(a character that i genuinely liked) and the whole Markan race. But the episode illustrates that sometimes the calvary arrives to late to save the situation. Sometimes hope does fail and thats one of life's unfortunate truth of true of life, the Heroes don't and can't win every battle.:(

Estelyn August 29th 10 21:08

Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations
 
I had similar thoughts - in almost every other TV show, the cavalry would have arrived to save the day, i.e. Dr. Franklin would have found the cure on time. The fact that he got a clue too late for it to help is what makes this episode special. And the fact that it prompted discussion of the religious aspects testifies to its effectiveness!

The "too late" reminds me of the episode where the information on the President's planned assassination doesn't reach his ship in time to warn him.

Introducing a Markab child to the plot made the tragedy even more moving and visible. At one point, we see through the child's eyes by way of the camera angle.

Interesting to see how the catastrophe promotes the relationship between Delenn and Sheridan. At the beginning, it's all formalized in the ritual meal; in the end, what really matters is life, death, love and compassion. I do like her reference to meeting again in a place where no *shadows* fall. One detail I also noticed was her story about being lost as a child and finding refuge in a temple. Who is the figure she sees? His mention of "my little ones" sounds very like Jesus, speaking of children being allowed to come to him. That doesn't sound like Valen, and he wouldn't have been around during her childhood anyway. Are there Minbari gods?

JoeD80 September 8th 10 16:48

Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 364651)
Who is the figure she sees? His mention of "my little ones" sounds very like Jesus, speaking of children being allowed to come to him. That doesn't sound like Valen, and he wouldn't have been around during her childhood anyway. Are there Minbari gods?

Pretty sure that's supposed to be Valen. I believe Sinclair has some similar lines later in the show. And we don't know what appearances Valen has made over the years - after all, he just vanished from existence like Sheridan does later. Joe mentioned that Delenn goes on a quest to find Valen after seeing him near the end of her life as well (though no one else believes it.)

Lennier's Tears February 1st 15 07:56

Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations
 
I watched this episode today. I find there's a lot to talk about here, even though it seems like mostly a standalone episode. The arc stuff is all in the background, but it's there. As people commented in this thread ten years ago, there's the Delenn/Sheridan relationship building, there's Franklin using stims, Delenn sacrificing herself for a cause, Lennier following her, ...

This episode is another reminder that things don't necessarily end well in the B5 universe. There's so much tragedy here, but multiple viewings do blunt the shock somewhat. That empty seat for the Markab in the council in later episodes still gets to me, though. I also try to picture what it must be like for the few Markab left alive across the universe (side note, a disease that kills 100% of infected individuals seems a bit much? Surely there's going to be one or two miraculous survivors here and there?). I also vaguely wonder what would happen to them in terms of legal status.

As for the debate on whether the Markab were unified in their belief that the disease was a punishment, I tend to think not. But enough of them believing it would make a very bad situation worse, and could lead to exactly what happened here. Then again ...

There must be some REALLY extreme weather on the Markab homeworld, if the island where the disease first occurred was cut off from the rest of the planet for a whole year. I can see how that would have made it harder to research the disease, since everyone who had it would have been long dead. Still, the disease had been back for a year by the time it gets to Babylon 5. If Franklin could figure it out in a day (granted, he had a dead Pak Ma Ra to work with), you'd think Markab doctors would have been able to figure something out, even if they were all under orders to ignore it. I guess we don't know enough about Markab society to say.

Aside from all the tragedy, there's some really funny stuff in this episode. The ritual meal and the flarn conversations are pretty amusing. I still fairly regularly use the word "flarn" in conversation because it amuses me so.

I've also often wondered what Delenn saw in that temple. I used to think it was a real person, but it does sound more god-like, or vision-ish. I don't know.

RW7427 February 2nd 15 00:56

Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations
 
Quote:

I've also often wondered what Delenn saw in that temple. I used to think it was a real person, but it does sound more god-like, or vision-ish. I don't know.
I always thought it was Valeria. But I also had an interesting thought that it could have even been Kosh!

Springer February 2nd 15 11:32

Re: EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RW7427 (Post 451005)
Quote:

I've also often wondered what Delenn saw in that temple. I used to think it was a real person, but it does sound more god-like, or vision-ish. I don't know.
I always thought it was Valeria. But I also had an interesting thought that it could have even been Kosh!

I had thought it was meant to be Valen, though I'm not sure how that would be possible. His fate was left open, wasn't it?


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