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-   -   EpDis: There All The Honor Lies (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=8208)

vacantlook July 3rd 05 14:42

EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for There All The Honor Lies
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for There All The Honor Lies

Jade Jaguar July 3rd 05 18:06

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
Maybe I'm too stingy with my A's, but I gave it a B. It does have some good political intrigue, but my favorite bit is Sheridan's "lesson" of "beauty in the dark."

RW7427 July 3rd 05 20:20

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
Gotta watch for those scheming Minbari! ;)

KoshFan July 4th 05 00:38

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
Raised above spear-carrier "C" status by having a lot of Kosh in it.

"The lessons must be working. You're starting to talk like a Vorlon."

Elric July 4th 05 11:47

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
I reserve my A votes the the really mind-blowing eps so this one gets a B. Like Jade Jaguar, my favourite part is beauty in the dark - great stuff!

PillowRock July 5th 05 14:46

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
It is also nice to have J. C. Brown back for an ep ..... even if she isn't in her Narn make-up. She still has a bit of her sarcastic sensibility.

RW7427 July 5th 05 15:44

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
Yeah, you get to see her as she really is, not as a Narn. ;)

Shaal Mayan July 8th 05 19:00

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
I gave this one a B gotta love those minbari eps.

Mbio August 17th 05 19:27

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
This is the first B5 episode I ever saw, when I started watching the reruns on TNT, so it holds a special place in my heart.

It was a nice intro for me, since it covers Sheridan's actions in the Earth-Minbari War, has a lot about the Minbari with all the interaction among Delenn, Lennier, and Ashan, and of course the "beauty in the dark" scene with Kosh. Also, the Londo doll scene is great, especially Ivanova's comment. This episode was the first step in getting me hooked.

RW7427 August 17th 05 20:27

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
Yeah, I love the doll thing. :lol:

Estelyn August 24th 10 15:01

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
The merchandising at the beginning is a very amusing subplot! I was wondering - is it actual real life B5 merchandising? Ivanova's comment on the "last best hope for a quick buck" amuses me as well.

I must confess, the "moment of perfect beauty" did not impress me much - I would have expected something more than the singing of monks, which seems too normal to be sublime. I guess beauty is in the ear of the listener in this case.

I like the glimpses we get of Vir's character and dilemma and of the relationship between him and Mollari. There are always those moments that make us *like* Londo, aren't there?! Also, his complaint about the Mollari doll is really funny - it's belittling him because the "attributes" are missing! Ivanova's word play with a barely cut off (oops, pun unintentional but too good to remove!) "cast-ration" is another amusing bit of dialogue. I looked up the author of the episode and am not surprised to see that it's Peter David. He's a well-known name, having written some good stuff for Star Trek as well.

I like it when some of the intro lines get used in episodes - this time, "all alone in the night". To which experience of being left alone in space is Sheridan referring? I don't recall offhand. Delenn's variation "all alone in a crowd" is poignant. It's interesting to see her working against Sheridan at first in this episode, knowing how their relationship will develop later on.

Jan August 24th 10 19:27

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
The items in the gift shop were made up specially for the episode and later sold at cost to the cast/crew. JMS got the Londo and G'Kar dolls and they were later part if his 'yard sale'.

I **loved** the moment of perfect beauty! Not just the chant, the lighting and the way the whole scene combined. I think it may have helped that the first time I saw it, I was pretty tense myself and when the music/chant started I just took a deep breath and let it all go.

Jan

Jade Jaguar August 30th 10 03:15

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan (Post 364541)
I **loved** the moment of perfect beauty! Not just the chant, the lighting and the way the whole scene combined. I think it may have helped that the first time I saw it, I was pretty tense myself and when the music/chant started I just took a deep breath and let it all go.

Jan

I loved it too, as you say, for the whole scene, lighting, and the setup.

Alioth March 25th 11 01:56

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
I was pretty surprised that there wasn't a gift shop with tourist kitsch like that on Babylon 5, from the get go. And "demeaning"? Okay, yeah, it's kitsch, but I guess I'm too jaded with the commercialism of our day to see such a strong reaction to this idea as believable from our command staff. And a gift shop, even if it was government run like those at national parks and such, would be assigned to the supervision of much more junior staff than Ivanova. The revenue it generates would probably be a drop in the bucket of overall station revenues, anyway.

C.L.U. April 11th 11 19:34

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 364539)
I must confess, the "moment of perfect beauty" did not impress me much - I would have expected something more than the singing of monks, which seems too normal to be sublime. I guess beauty is in the ear of the listener in this case.

I like to think that these monks were pak'ma'ra, if only based on Vir's touching story in Sleeping In Light about Londo and him hearing them sing with a voice full of sadness, hope, wonder and a terrible sense of loss. The pieces fit.

RW7427 April 16th 11 20:26

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by C.L.U. (Post 369344)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 364539)
I must confess, the "moment of perfect beauty" did not impress me much - I would have expected something more than the singing of monks, which seems too normal to be sublime. I guess beauty is in the ear of the listener in this case.

I like to think that these monks were pak'ma'ra, if only based on Vir's touching story in Sleeping In Light about Londo and him hearing them sing with a voice full of sadness, hope, wonder and a terrible sense of loss. The pieces fit.

I never put those two together, but sounds like that could be true! ;)

Alioth April 17th 11 04:49

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
That was one of the most beautiful moments of this series. One moment of perfect beauty.

Alexa June 26th 11 02:07

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by C.L.U. (Post 369344)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 364539)
I must confess, the "moment of perfect beauty" did not impress me much - I would have expected something more than the singing of monks, which seems too normal to be sublime. I guess beauty is in the ear of the listener in this case.

I like to think that these monks were pak'ma'ra, if only based on Vir's touching story in Sleeping In Light about Londo and him hearing them sing with a voice full of sadness, hope, wonder and a terrible sense of loss. The pieces fit.

YES!!! Finally someone else who thinks that it was the pak'ma'ra!! My husband and I have argued about that a bit. My impression was that they were the pak'ma'ra, and it was the simplicity and the contrast between the low crawl space they were in and the soaring of their voices. Truly perfect beauty!

Sindatur June 26th 11 03:44

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexa (Post 371487)
Quote:

Originally Posted by C.L.U. (Post 369344)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 364539)
I must confess, the "moment of perfect beauty" did not impress me much - I would have expected something more than the singing of monks, which seems too normal to be sublime. I guess beauty is in the ear of the listener in this case.

I like to think that these monks were pak'ma'ra, if only based on Vir's touching story in Sleeping In Light about Londo and him hearing them sing with a voice full of sadness, hope, wonder and a terrible sense of loss. The pieces fit.

YES!!! Finally someone else who thinks that it was the pak'ma'ra!! My husband and I have argued about that a bit. My impression was that they were the pak'ma'ra, and it was the simplicity and the contrast between the low crawl space they were in and the soaring of their voices. Truly perfect beauty!

So...this isn't an established fact? Damn, I thought this was a foregone conclusion. Now I have to face the possibility it's a silly Fanboi interpretation?

Jan June 26th 11 03:59

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 371494)
So...this isn't an established fact? Damn, I thought this was a foregone conclusion. Now I have to face the possibility it's a silly Fanboi interpretation?

It's not anything verified via JMS or the script, no. But I've always felt is was the pak'ma'ra, too. Why they were doing a Gregorian chant is anybody's guess, not to mention why they did it regularly enough that we heard them singing it again in "Passing through Gethsemane".

Jan

hypatia June 26th 11 04:18

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
Could the Gregorian chant be music's Swedish Meatballs?

;)

Alexa June 26th 11 13:52

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
LOL

vacantlook June 26th 11 23:46

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
Hmm.

The pak'ma'ra sing on Babylon 5.

The Ood sing on Doctor Who.

What is it about singing tentacle-faces?

Alexa June 27th 11 10:32

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
They are strangely compelling

Jade Jaguar June 28th 11 02:36

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan (Post 371495)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 371494)
So...this isn't an established fact? Damn, I thought this was a foregone conclusion. Now I have to face the possibility it's a silly Fanboi interpretation?

It's not anything verified via JMS or the script, no. But I've always felt is was the pak'ma'ra, too. Why they were doing a Gregorian chant is anybody's guess, not to mention why they did it regularly enough that we heard them singing it again in "Passing through Gethsemane".

Jan

I, too, have always thought it was the pak'ma'ra. In part, I thought that the "lesson" was that these ugly, disgusting carrion-eaters, looked down on by others, were capable of manifesting such beauty.

Alexa June 28th 11 09:26

Re: EpDis: There All The Honor Lies
 
Nicely put. :)


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