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-   -   EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=8166)

vacantlook June 22nd 05 03:30

EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for Acts Of Sacrifice
Lurker's Gude Extended Synopsis for Acts Of Sacrifice

GKarsEye June 22nd 05 04:35

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
Take away the "sex scene" and you'd have an A episode.

Classic Londo. Love it.

Even liked the Lumati's take on down-below.

hypatia June 22nd 05 04:36

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
I wonder what Correlilmerzon would have done if the B5 representative were a man.

Or perhaps "superior species" don't have a hang-up about such things. :)

RW7427 June 22nd 05 04:45

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
I LOVE the sex scene! :lol: :lol: :lol:

hypatia June 22nd 05 04:46

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
I actually do too, simply as pure camp. But it is kind of silly.

deaded June 22nd 05 09:12

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
I agree. The sex scene is stupid, but the rest of it is very good. I say B+.

A_M_Swallow June 22nd 05 13:07

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
Quote:

I wonder what Correlilmerzon would have done if the B5 representative were a man.

Or perhaps "superior species" don't have a hang-up about such things. :)

This is a satire on Hollywood suits. He would have probably preferred a man.

Sindatur June 22nd 05 13:51

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
When I watch it alone, the sex scene doesn't bother me at all, it's a great hoot. But, when someone walks in the room during that scene, who isn't aware, it can be quite embarrassing. I still give it an A.

The mindset of the Lumati and their classism is perfectly portrayed, Paul Williams translating things with a twist, the way they latched onto B5's idea of "Keeping the inferiors seperated". Susan has another diplomatic assignment and pulls this one off much smoother than the one with the Drazi.

KoshN June 22nd 05 14:10

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
Quote:

Take away the "sex scene" and you'd have an A episode.

Classic Londo. Love it.

Even liked the Lumati's take on down-below.

Take away the throwaway Lumati thread and you have an "A" episode.

StarForBram June 22nd 05 14:27

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
I HATE the sex scene. It was a perfect opportunity to expose more of Ivanova.

KoshFan June 22nd 05 15:28

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
Man, people do seem to have strong emotions about this one, don't they?

B. A good plot-pusher ep. And personally I find the sex scene pretty amusing. "Next time, my way."

Shaal Mayan June 22nd 05 21:36

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
Take away the sex scene with Ivanova and I would have given it an A but with it in I give it a B.

admiraldave June 23rd 05 00:38

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
It's silly, but I like the whole Lumati subplot. Excellent episode, one of my favourite G'Kar episodes.

vacantlook June 23rd 05 01:20

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
With the Lumati being quite into the ideals of evolution and natural selection, I wonder if way back in their history if they had had some exposure to Shadows that built their social philosophy.

Springer June 23rd 05 10:30

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
I found Ivanova's song/dance/sex routine really silly, and not particularly funny, and it did not suit B5 at all. The rest of the epsiode is ok, but a bit dull. The teaser was good, but it was downhill from thast point. And Mary Kay Admas shows in this episode why we really missed Caitlin Brown- there is absolutely no strength to her performance, and thankfully we never see her again after this episode.

GKarsEye June 23rd 05 14:28

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
Quote:

With the Lumati being quite into the ideals of evolution and natural selection, I wonder if way back in their history if they had had some exposure to Shadows that built their social philosophy.

Even if they didn't, it's a fantastic bit of classic B5 foreshadowing.

Chilli June 23rd 05 23:28

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
I didn't really think the Lumati thread was throw-away .. the sex scene was too silly for me after having seen it once, overall though, was the kind of plot that was so perfectly alien but still made so much sense - one thing I love about many plots in B5. And I loved the bits in the mess hall around the plot .. especially Franklin's bits there.

A great episode, though not one that has me sitting at the edge of my seat like some others .. still a solid A I suppose :D

KoshN June 25th 05 02:43

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
Quote:

I didn't really think the Lumati thread was throw-away .. the sex scene was too silly for me after having seen it once, overall though, was the kind of plot that was so perfectly alien but still made so much sense - one thing I love about many plots in B5.


We never saw or heard of the Lumati ever again. That's what I call a throwaway.

vacantlook June 25th 05 02:49

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
I think there was one scene several episodes later in which Delenn is dictating a letter or message or something to her computer and mentions agreeing to open trade relations with the Lumati, I think. But otherwise, yeah it was throwaway, which was kinda annoying. I'm not too terribly fond of one-off alien races in space shows.

KoshFan June 25th 05 03:21

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
The punchline to that scene, with Delenn dictating the letter, is that she says she can't conclude negotiations on the treaty at that time. I'll give you three guess why.

vacantlook June 25th 05 05:41

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
I think one problem a lot of space stories have is background alien species: aliens designed to be in the background of many shots that just don't have anywhere near as much thought and love and energy as aliens designed to be main characters have. And as such, they kinda end up sucking. The Lumati, while being kinda funny for one episode, end up such. Just take a look at their visual design: it's just miscellaneous face prosthetics: kinda boring. :(

RW7427 June 25th 05 13:16

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
And this is why the Drazi are so lovely? :p

B5obsessive June 27th 05 15:58

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
I really love this one, and I side with those who like "the agreement". ;) I know B5 is a smart show, but not every moment has to be intellectual. This is just a bit of silly fun. It fits with Susan's "alternative diplomacy" thing that she started with the Drazi too

Estelyn August 23rd 10 21:39

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
I too must chime in with those who think the "sex" scene is silly. It is also illogical - Ivanova suggested that it could be too strenuous for the Lumati, but he had almost no action at all. I can appreciate the opportunity to see Ivanova from a different (very sexy!) side, but that scene should have been written more skilfully. The punch line with the gift is amusing though...

I did like Mollari's part in this episode. His lonesomeness, which will continue throughout the rest of his life, almost makes me feel sorry for him. He desperately wants friendship, respect - and has become "a wishing well on legs" - a nice, apt description!

G'Kar's change of character already begins here, his movement from a warmonger to a seeker for peace.

vacantlook August 24th 10 08:33

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 364526)
...Ivanova suggested that it could be too strenuous for the Lumati, but he had almost no action at all....

That was just part of the sell, part of the hype, part of the performance; Ivanova didn't actually plan on doing something that would be too strenuous for him. It was kind of an ego attack, making him more willing to go along in order to prove he can handle the strenuoucity. It was a bit of a foot-in-the-door manipulation on Ivanova's part.

Alioth March 25th 11 01:41

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GKarsEye (Post 220551)
Quote:

With the Lumati being quite into the ideals of evolution and natural selection, I wonder if way back in their history if they had had some exposure to Shadows that built their social philosophy.

Even if they didn't, it's a fantastic bit of classic B5 foreshadowing.

Yeah, "Earth is making interesting new friends", is how I saw this episode (second viewing after knowing how the arc goes). Like ideologies were slowly gathering.

vacantlook March 26th 11 01:59

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
Like the Lumati's social philosophy could reveal a history of Shadow influence in their species, I also think that we see that with another species too: the Drazi. With the whole Purple-Green conflict, there is really no reason behind that beyond having a conflict to see who'll win in the end, and the winners then proceed to rule their government for the next period until they engage in the conflict again years down the road.

RW7427 March 26th 11 14:09

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vacantlook (Post 368783)
Like the Lumati's social philosophy could reveal a history of Shadow influence in their species, I also think that we see that with another species too: the Drazi. With the whole Purple-Green conflict, there is really no reason behind that beyond having a conflict to see who'll win in the end, and the winners then proceed to rule their government for the next period until they engage in the conflict again years down the road.

I never made that connection between the Drazi and the Shadows before, VL. But now that you mention it, it does make sense. ;)

Orion February 3rd 13 00:04

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
Just watched this ep again after so many years. I remember watching this for the first time and really hoping that Londo made a reconnect with Garibaldi, and stepped back from the dark turn he made. Oh well

Dorvo November 4th 15 02:02

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
I like the humor of the Lumati scenes, although I do tend to laugh at things easily. Still, what strikes me as really funny is the wonderfully ludicrous disjunction between how exaltedly they see themselves and how absurd they really are. That makes great comedy, and could apply to so many other people and situations.

The meat of the episode though is the further development of Londo and G'kar, without a doubt. I always feel so desperately sorry for Londo here, ironically because he got what he wanted, and he never thought of how it would totally isolate him from others. In very nice symmetry, G'kar also reaps what he's sowed--his thirst for vengeance has partly gotten him and his people where they are, thus illustrating a central irony of the episode: beware what you wish for; you just may get it. And you feel just as sorry for him in that terrible laughing/crying moment after he finds out what Delenn and Sheridan are risking to help him. The episode is cool for them too, how it illustrates that when institutions fall down on the job, it's up to moral individuals to pick up the slack., and how hard this can be when you're surrounded by extremists who'll pursue their agenda regardless of how self destructive and wrong headed it clearly is. Gosh. Applicable lessons here for our own current set of headlines.

Looney July 14th 18 15:47

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
Acts of Sacrifice = A+++

I think this is one of the most brilliant episodes of the series. There is just so much going on and so much happens in little details. Everything with Londo and G'Kar is outstanding. Everything with Sheridan and Delenn is great. You see that they both want to help and they are both going to help however they can. I think you also see a hint of a spark in Delenn's eyes when she hears that Sheridan is willing to put himself on the line to accomplish this goal. The layers of what is going on is so wonderful. The stakes are so high because if the Narn and Centauri start fighting on B5 it just becomes a matter of time before before there is anarchy. If they start killing each other then others will likely get caught in the crossfire and the might escalate to other races with Babylon 5 being the point from which it spread. I could talk for hours about all of this. G'kar power struggle. Londo's burden of consequence. Delenn and Sheridan stuck in the middle of something they have no real power over. Garibaldi caught in a terrible place with someone he use to consider a friend. Na'Toth stuck between wanting to help G'Kar and wanting to kill some Centauri. Zack's guilt over having to kill the Narn. (Okay they don't go into those last two, but you know it is there.)

Now as far as Ivanova goes I think everything happening there is brilliant, except the sex scene - but only for the fact that I wish it had been done differently. My opinion is that I feel they maybe tried a little too hard to make it funny. Or maybe they just told Claudia Christian to improvise and it didn't turn out so well. Or maybe they were worried about making anything seem to risque. Whatever the case I think it could have been better. And I don't mean sexier or anything like that. I just mean dialogue wise or action wise; maybe more dancing around or something. The concept is great; execution not so much. And everything prior to that is just great.

A chill goes up my spine more strongly every time I see this episode when Correlilmurzon through Taq points out that we have figured away to separate the inferior members of society while at the same time creating a workforce with no power base. :(

And the best line of the episode might be:

"I'll get the needle." Dr. Stephen Franklin after telling Ivanova he could give her something that would make her ill to get her out of having sex with Correlilmurzon. It just seem hilarious to me that he actually had a tinge of excitement in his voice at the prospect of that endeavor. :lol:

KoshFan July 14th 18 16:42

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
My favorite bit of the Corelliwhatever/Taq plot (which was interesting) is where Taq bows to Ivanova at the end. The servant was quicker on the uptake than the master!

Jan July 14th 18 17:10

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Looney (Post 460968)
Now as far as Ivanova goes I think everything happening there is brilliant, except the sex scene - but only for the fact that I wish it had been done differently. My opinion is that I feel they maybe tried a little too hard to make it funny. Or maybe they just told Claudia Christian to improvise and it didn't turn out so well. Or maybe they were worried about making anything seem to risque. Whatever the case I think it could have been better. And I don't mean sexier or anything like that. I just mean dialogue wise or action wise; maybe more dancing around or something. The concept is great; execution not so much. And everything prior to that is just great.

Pretty much everything she did was in the script and not improvised:
--------------------
And she closes her eyes, lets out a breath...and suddenly
begins dancing around him. THIS SHOULD HAVE A RHYTHMIC PATTER
THROUGHOUT.

IVANOVA
BOOM-shob-a-lobba-lobba, BOOM-shobalobba-
lobba, hey there, hey there,
three bags full...come here often?
Yes I do...DINNERshob-alobba-lobba,
DRINKS-shob-a-lobbalobba, kiss-kisskiss-
kiss, kisskiss-GRAB!
(non-patter)
How is it for you so far?
Before he can answer, she launches into JUMPING JACKS around
him:

IVANOVA
I slept with you the other night
You didn't call, you didn't write
I think you do it just for spite.
Suddenly she GRABS his hand, clutches it between her own.

IVANOVA
Yes! Oh, yes...show me your
portfolio...lie to me about your
family-yes-oh, yes...
She builds right up to a screaming finish, and a yell that
could shatter glass. Then she plinks open her eyes, looks at
him with seeming adoration.

IVANOVA
God, you're good.
And he doesn't know whether to run or go blind.
--------------
See? While it's not a scene that I go out of my way to rewatch, I loved that everything she said was an all-too-accurate account of many dates.

Looney July 15th 18 14:12

Re: EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 460970)
My favorite bit of the Corelliwhatever/Taq plot (which was interesting) is where Taq bows to Ivanova at the end. The servant was quicker on the uptake than the master!

Yes that is definitely the best moment of that plot thread. It is a shame Taq did not return after overthrowing his overlords. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan (Post 460972)

Pretty much everything she did was in the script and not improvised:
--------------
See? While it's not a scene that I go out of my way to rewatch, I loved that everything she said was an all-too-accurate account of many dates.

Okay I guess I can see that point. And in a way if you think about it in the Date/Relationship context it kind of taps into Ivanova's cynical nature. I put the words she was saying into that context, but you showing me them written out really made me realize how that could be attached to her personality. :thumbsup:


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