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vacantlook March 30th 05 05:36

EpDis: Revelations
 
Episode 2.02

Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for Revelations
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for Revelations

Jade Jaguar March 30th 05 06:07

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
I voted good, but only because there are eps that are even better. For any other show, it would have been excellent.

vacantlook March 30th 05 06:23

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
I think it's excellent -- not as excellent as other excellent episodes, but still really up there. I really love all of G'Kar's stuff in this episode. His flying a fighter craft at Z'ha'dum, the other Narn's sacrificing themselves so he can get away, G'Kar's trying to warn Sheridan and the Council, but their not seeing it as important as G'Kar (and Morden) sees the information. How would Delenn have reacted had she been actively sitting on the Council then instead of being indisposed when G'Kar presented the information, I wonder. And the scene of the Shadow ship blowing up the Narn cruiser just as it comes out of the jumppoint was great!

RMcD March 30th 05 10:03

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
It's a good episode I suppose, although really its only purpose is to tie up all the loose threads left over from Chrysalis and impose the new status quo.

I find the character of Lizzy a little cringe-making, partly because she's completely dropped from the story after this. Her sole purpose seems to be to introduce the audience to the concept of Anna, but it still seems odd that Sheridan only mentions her again only once in 'There All the Honor Lies' (although perhaps not that surprising, given they hadn't spoken for 2 years prior to this).

We see the inside of hyperspace for the very first time in the series in this episode!! And it's also the first of Mary Kay Adams' 2 appearances as Na'Toth..

The bit I like most is G'Kar pleading to be taken seriously by the council.. If only they'd listened to him then, perhaps the shadow war would have started prematurely, and billions more people would have died. Poor G'Kar. :)

deaded March 30th 05 10:15

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
I totally can't remember it. I'm going to go watch it now again before I vote.


Shaal Mayan March 30th 05 13:31

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
C average for me the big downer here is Delenn coming out of her chrysalis and the beginning of her being a human with a partial bone on her head.Sad really she loses almost everything about her minbariness and alieness and it is the beginning here. :(

KoshFan March 30th 05 15:15

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Solid ep. I, too, am an immense fan of G'Kar's actions in this one -- when he talks to Londo about it you can see just how much seeing the Shadows has matured him. But then that maturity was always there, just a little buried underneath jingoistic bluster.

GKarsEye March 30th 05 15:17

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Quote:

she loses almost everything about her minbariness

Other Minbari make the same claim. She proves them wrong with her actions in their civil war and by fighting the Shadows when they wouldn't.


I love this episode. To regurgitate JMS' own analogy, it's the beginning of G'Kar as Cassandra, warning everyone of the danger to come and being ignored. It's the perfect set-up to the most wrenching, heart-breaking moment of the series to me: Delenn revealing her foreknowledge of the Shadows to G'Kar.

I remember JMS also saying he included literary quotes to inspire people to read it. In that spirit, quoted from the Lurker's Guide page vacantlook linked, is W.B. Yeats' The Second Coming:

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of "Spiritus Mundi"
Troubles my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indigant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

RW7427 March 30th 05 15:38

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Now THIS is the ep that I can vote a C for because I don't like Sheridan's sister. :lol: I thought she was in Points of Departure. :o

GKarsEye March 30th 05 16:18

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
I agree that she's the weak point of the ep, especially since sh's never mentioned again, especially when Clark threatens his parents.

But I do like him and Franklin saving Garibaldi's life with the alien device.

GKarsEye March 30th 05 16:22

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Also, I love the plot structure of this episode in relation to the series. The episode is called Revelations because we learn important background stuff. One is a big plot thing: the Shadows are out and about, causing trouble. The other is a small character thing: new guy's wife died on some far away place.

But of course we later learn that both revelations are completely related, and so, as the best of B5 does, it works on two levels: as a basic A/B plot setup episode and, for repeat viewers, as the first big snapshot of how everything is related.

RW7427 March 30th 05 17:39

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Quote:

But I do like him and Franklin saving Garibaldi's life with the alien device.


Yeah, me too. :D

Elenopa March 30th 05 17:45

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
That damn alien healing device. It killed Marcus! :mad:

deaded March 30th 05 17:49

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Lots of good stuff here. Man, Katsulas sure can act, can't he?! Yeah, Sheridan's sister Lizzy is very anoying and a bad actress. I find their relationship to be forced and not believable. It was not one of Bruce's better acting days either. I also have to say that I liked the first Anna a lot better. She was a hottie and I'll never get past the Laura Engles thing. Too bad they couldn't keep her. It's a very important episode with respect to the arc but I can't see giving it better than a B.

Springer April 3rd 05 19:35

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
I like this episode. There was a real sense of impending doom during the first half of season 2 that I really liked, and this episode really epitomises that. I love watching the teaser, with G'Kar fleeing Z'Ha'Dum. You get the sense that something really bad is going on there.

And a heck of a lot happens in this episode. Londo's getting deeper into his deal with the devil without really realising what he is doing. Morden comes off as really creepy (like usual) "One thing at a time Ambassador... one thing at a time." Very chilling, especially watching Londo's reaction.

But yeah, Sheridan's sister really does spoil it. She is such a plot device, I remember the director Joe Johnston saying he wanted to cut out that scene with Sheridan and his sister at the restaurant, but JMS wouldn't let him. I can understand why he wanted to cut it out too, it slows the pace, and the important stuff that is said is repeated in Sheridan's quarters later anyway.

And then Delenn comes out of her cocoon. I'm still not sure if her transformation benefitted her character or not. It took away some of her alien qualities but on the other hand she became more interesting in other ways.

The main problem with this episode is that there is so much going on, there's no singular 'A' plot running through the episode for everything else to branch off and give things some structure, and that prevents it from becoming a memorable episode. Instead, its just a very good episode.

Cell November 9th 08 23:51

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
New review is up,

http://worldsoforos.com/secondviews/...babylon-5-202/

G'Kar February 4th 09 23:00

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Gave it a B mainly because it's a transition episode, but it does involve G'Kar a lot, which makes me happy.

Estelyn May 26th 10 20:54

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
This episode does have some important build-up for future developments, though I must agree with those who are annoyed with Sheridan's sister. C'mon, he tells us that B5 is "all alone in the night", then everyone and his dog comes to visit?!

The biggest revelation about Londo is seeing him betraying the Narn investigative ships. He acted shocked over Morden's callousness in destroying so many Narns, but he does make an active decision here. He must know that its consequences will be terrible.

We are kept in some suspense as to the result of Delenn's transformation - the crusty skin structure at first, her fearfulness. However, the result is stunning! You can just see Sheridan falling in love at first sight, though he doesn't yet realize it and wouldn't be ready for it if he did. I must say, I like her hairstyle here more than some of the attempts that are made in the coming episodes and seasons. There's something very attractive about the asymmetrical 'do.

KoshFan May 26th 10 21:42

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 361906)
This episode does have some important build-up for future developments, though I must agree with those who are annoyed with Sheridan's sister. C'mon, he tells us that B5 is "all alone in the night", then everyone and his dog comes to visit?!

A common complaint about B5, leading to Bester's classic comment in Season 5 -- "Contrary to the opinions of some, not everything revolves around Babylon 5."

JoeD80 May 26th 10 23:15

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
I think "all alone in the night" refers to the station being in an unihabited (for the most part) section of the galaxy; not that nobody goes there. It is the central location where all the major governments send their ambassadors to discuss/plan/scheme/etc. after all. Sheridan's sister is much more likely to visit him here at his new command in a station that never moves then to have tried to meet him on his patrols on the Agamemnon.

Estelyn May 26th 10 23:34

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
One more thing bugs me as being inconsistent in this episode - the arrest and transfer of Garabaldi's aide. The characters make sure we are informed that a telepathic scan will not be admissible as evidence in court. Why then can he be arrested and jailed for his crime? And what's even more important, why does Earth Gov affirm his arrest by commanding him to be sent home for trial? Shouldn't they be saying, "Sorry, you can't arrest and convict him on this basis"?

KoshFan May 26th 10 23:59

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 361922)
One more thing bugs me as being inconsistent in this episode - the arrest and transfer of Garabaldi's aide. The characters make sure we are informed that a telepathic scan will not be admissible as evidence in court. Why then can he be arrested and jailed for his crime? And what's even more important, why does Earth Gov affirm his arrest by commanding him to be sent home for trial? Shouldn't they be saying, "Sorry, you can't arrest and convict him on this basis"?

I thought all Talia did was jostle Garibaldi's memory. It's his testimony that would convict, since after all he's the only surviving witness of everything that the aide (Jack) did.

Estelyn May 27th 10 07:45

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Ah, that could be the solution to my question - thanks, KF!

Alioth March 20th 11 10:15

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
The first time we see Clark, aside from his swearing-in on the ISN newscast (that classic chilling scene in "Chrysalis" when Kosh utters "and so it begins")--the first time we see him actually interacting with one of our characters (Sheridan). And boy does that give one the creeps, especially on second viewing after knowing just how evil his regime ends up being.

I like the awkward silence with Sheridan and Ivanova at the end, after learning of the traitor disappearing after supposedly being remanded to Earth custody. "It gets cold up here sometimes, doesn't it?" They both dare not, at this point, bring to words the implications this news brings, but boy is it the elephant in the room.

This is about where I'm at in my second-go-round of viewing the series (after just seeing the whole series the first time just these past few months).

vacantlook March 20th 11 22:33

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
As always, we enjoy hearing about people's thoughts as they watch each episode, or in your case watch it for the second time. Please feel free to post as many of your thoughts as you feel like; we really do enjoy reading them.

Bab5nutz April 24th 11 22:51

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
There was one thing that bugs me. It is a very little thing, but here goes

Who tidied Delenn up, and did her hair - ah new hair? Minbari aren't exactly hairy - the most you see is a few beards on the males. Delenn, as we see in "Soul Mates" hasn't the slightest idea what to do with it, or how to care for it. Did Lennier or Franklin send for a hairdresser?

I think I must have a hair hangup. In the fourth season, when Sheridan is stranded on Z'ha'dum, his hair is quite long for a military dude. Later, when he returns to B5 on Lorien's ship, his hair is very short. Did Lorien's rejuvination include a haircut? Did Sheridan stop at the hairdresser's on his way up to the protest meeting that was going on?

C.L.U. April 24th 11 23:22

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bab5nutz (Post 369694)
In the fourth season, when Sheridan is stranded on Z'ha'dum, his hair is quite long for a military dude. Later, when he returns to B5 on Lorien's ship, his hair is very short. Did Lorien's rejuvination include a haircut? Did Sheridan stop at the hairdresser's on his way up to the protest meeting that was going on?

When Sheridan returns to the station and makes the big speech in The Summoning, he still has the same long hair. The new haircut appears in the next episode Falling Towards Apotheosis after he has been on the station at least for a few days.

My problem with Sheridan's hair starts in The Deconstruction Of Falling Stars. It's clearly dyed during the production of the fifth season and is clearly more reddish than before. Annoying little detail, but it's there.

Sindatur April 24th 11 23:29

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bab5nutz (Post 369694)
There was one thing that bugs me. It is a very little thing, but here goes

Who tidied Delenn up, and did her hair - ah new hair? Minbari aren't exactly hairy - the most you see is a few beards on the males. Delenn, as we see in "Soul Mates" hasn't the slightest idea what to do with it, or how to care for it. Did Lennier or Franklin send for a hairdresser?

I think I must have a hair hangup. In the fourth season, when Sheridan is stranded on Z'ha'dum, his hair is quite long for a military dude. Later, when he returns to B5 on Lorien's ship, his hair is very short. Did Lorien's rejuvination include a haircut? Did Sheridan stop at the hairdresser's on his way up to the protest meeting that was going on?

Delenn's pretty bright, I think Ivanova fixing her hair for her the one time, showed her how to work with it, as you say, she had no clue up to that point, once she had a clue, she could easily enough figure out from there, with trial and error.

vacantlook April 25th 11 00:13

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 369696)
Delenn's pretty bright, I think Ivanova fixing her hair for her the one time, showed her how to work with it, as you say, she had no clue up to that point, once she had a clue, she could easily enough figure out from there, with trial and error.

What Bab5nutz is talking about is Delenn's hair here in the episode "Revelations", probably particularly the scene in the Captain's office when she pulls the hood off to reveal her new mostly human look complete with very well done hair, which takes place before the episode in which Ivanova shows Delenn how to do her hair. With Delenn's hair here, how did it get to looking so good since we see in the later episode when Ivanova shows her how to do her hair that at this point here in "Revelations" Delenn doesn't yet know.

Jan April 25th 11 01:36

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
I don't think it's so much that Delenn doesn't know how to style her hair, it's that she doesn't know how to take care of it to keep it healthy. Remember that the Minbari use a chemical compound that strips the outer layer of cells so over time her hair became brittle and unmanageable.

Me, I always wondered how they got the strands out of that rock-like stuff all over her when she came out of the chrysalis. She's lucky she had any hair at all!

Jan

vacantlook April 25th 11 05:31

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Maybe the chrysalis goo is the best shampoo evah!

Sindatur April 25th 11 16:25

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vacantlook (Post 369699)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 369696)
Delenn's pretty bright, I think Ivanova fixing her hair for her the one time, showed her how to work with it, as you say, she had no clue up to that point, once she had a clue, she could easily enough figure out from there, with trial and error.

What Bab5nutz is talking about is Delenn's hair here in the episode "Revelations", probably particularly the scene in the Captain's office when she pulls the hood off to reveal her new mostly human look complete with very well done hair, which takes place before the episode in which Ivanova shows Delenn how to do her hair. With Delenn's hair here, how did it get to looking so good since we see in the later episode when Ivanova shows her how to do her hair that at this point here in "Revelations" Delenn doesn't yet know.

Ah, my bad, it just hadn't had time to get damaged yet, then, I assume

Alioth May 12th 12 06:22

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 361906)
We are kept in some suspense as to the result of Delenn's transformation - the crusty skin structure at first, her fearfulness. However, the result is stunning!


Although I didn't catch this when I first watched this episode on DVD, I note that the opening credit sequence for S2 included Delenn with her new look--so if you're one to pay attention to these, the "suspense" would be spoiled. Not to mention that her picture is also on the cover of the DVD case (at least the version I have).

Of course, there was still enough suspense about the changes the chrysalis would yield, between the end of S1 and the beginning of S2, for those who viewed the show at the time it was aired (which I did not). And even if you knew what Delenn would look like from watching those opener credits of the first S2 episode, there's still a lot of curiosity and suspense as to what those changes will imply, what they mean--which of course ties in with the whole sweep of the series arc.

vacantlook May 12th 12 17:01

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alioth (Post 396952)
Although I didn't catch this when I first watched this episode on DVD, I note that the opening credit sequence for S2 included Delenn with her new look--so if you're one to pay attention to these, the "suspense" would be spoiled. Not to mention that her picture is also on the cover of the DVD case (at least the version I have).

Yeah, that's a DVD thing. If I remember correctly, in the original TV broadcast, the shots of Delenn in the S2 opening credits didn't update to have her new appearance until the episode after she revealed her new appearance. For the couple of episodes prior to the reveal, in the original TV broadcast, the credits used a shot of full-Minbari style Delenn. When they updated the show from it's original 4:3 broadcast ratio to the widescreen ratio for reruns on the Sci Fi Channel and the DVDs, they sadly only did the latter version of the credits instead of using both.

Jade Jaguar May 14th 12 07:01

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
VL, you remember correctly.

Lennier's Tears December 23rd 15 02:20

Re: EpDis: Revelations
 
Ooh, I should have checked this thread before I posted in the one for "Points of Departure". I didn't realize the discussion about the opening credits was in this thread, so I posted about it in the other one. Ah well. At least I have confirmation now that the opening credits used to be different and less spoilery! It bothers me immensely that there is a huge spoiler in the opening credits, although I guess it would be hard to avoid seeing pictures of post-Chrysalis Delenn .. like the one on the DVD box :-|

I'm glad I'm not the only one who seems overly interested in character hairstyles. I have also commented on Sheridan's bad hair at the end of season 3 :p Like Estelyn, I prefer the look of Delenn's hair in this episode over her look in all other episodes. Maybe the bangs they gave her later have more to do with makeup than with the character's hairstyle preference. I also have wondered who did her hair after she came out of the cocoon.. I mean that is really nice hair! This is a person who's never had hair in her life and who suddenly grew several years' worth of it. If I suddenly woke up with that much hair, I'm sure I wouldn't be able to style it that nicely :p

Anyway.

As for the actual episode, I like it a lot. Unlike everyone else here, I don't have a problem with Sheridan's sister, although the dead wife/friend conversation does go on for rather a long time. It doesn't really bother me that she appears once and is barely mentioned again. It makes sense for her to visit now that her brother is stationed somewhere she can travel to. It bothers me more that Sheridan's mother is NEVER seen (except in vision/memory). Every time he calls home, it's his dad that answers because mom is off somewhere else. It gets a little weird by the end of season 4. But, that's nothing to do with this episode :p

Mainly, I like the slow creepy buildup that's going on. Something really ominous is building and only G'Kar is catching on.

As for Delenn's transformation, I understand that this is a thing that was considered necessary for [spoilers for later storylines in the rest of this paragraph .. do not read on if you are watching for the first time ... incidentally isn't there a BB spoiler code activated on this board?] her later relationship with Sheridan, but I think it works quite well inside the story arc as well, with the whole prophecy thing, and later the Sinclair/Valen thing.

Stuff and things:
  • Mordon uses the expression "Beyond a shadow of a doubt". Heh.
  • Lou Welch! I love that character :D In the scene where he's pushing Jack against the wall, you can see that his link is on his glove. Interesting. I seem to remember something about the links bonding to your skin... Am I misremembering that?
  • Sheridan's first act of self-sacrifice. In this case for Garibaldi, who is a stranger at the time.
  • "Weep for the future, Na'Toth. Weep for us all" I like to randomly quote that line.
  • "After a thousand years, the darkness has come again!" Very ominous, that.
  • When Garibaldi wakes up and is being questioned in medlab, we see Jack in the background, putting his hand on his PPG. What exactly was he going to do if Garibaldi remembered anything? Shoot everyone? That would be pretty hard to cover up, no?


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