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-   -   EpDis: Points Of Departure (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=7726)

Cell October 31st 08 20:23

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 
It's time for more Babylon 5, thus kicks off my reviews of season 2,

Points Of Departure
http://worldsoforos.com/secondviews/...babylon-5-201/

Estelyn May 24th 10 22:51

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 
Having seen all five seasons of B5 recently, and now rewatching them again, it's interesting to see Sheridan being introduced in this episode. He looks so young and carefree! (Mind you, I like him better toward the end of the series.) He comes across as annoyingly smiling, optimistic, and with that ridiculous obsession with oranges, but also astute in his assessment of the tactical situation with the Minbari ship. I get the feeling that we viewers are seeing him with Ivanova's eyes, and she knew him previously, and we trust her judgement, since we know her, so we tend to trust him more quickly than would otherwise be the case.

It's a bit surprising to have Lennier clear up the mystery about the reason for the Minbari ending the war so early in the season, right in the first episode! However, the chrysalis is kept a mystery, so it's not all solved at once.

I loved seeing Ivanova handling things with her usual energy and sarcasm, yet still being relieved that she didn't have to keep leading the station on her own.

The Minbari are shown to be flawed, which is a good thing, and the rift between religious and warrior castes is again mentioned. I agree with those who wondered about their judgmental attitude toward Sheridan for achieving the only victory in the war - why attack someone for doing what they had been doing the whole time?!

I miss Sinclair, but enjoyed reading about his further development in the book "To Dream in the City of Sorrows". I thought JMS did a good job of finding a plausible reason for the change and of giving him a great role in the future - and in the past, of course!

JoeD80 May 24th 10 23:09

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn (Post 361824)
It's a bit surprising to have Lennier clear up the mystery about the reason for the Minbari ending the war so early in the season, right in the first episode!

He didn't mention that Sinclair was Valen though; he only mentioned that Minbari souls were in human bodies. It's also not yet evident that Sinclair went back in time which is how he was Valen in the first place. All the pieces for solving this mystery are not in place in this episode, even though we learn a bit. According to Joe, learning what Lennier says here was originally going to occur in episode 3 of season 2 if Sinclair was still there, so it still would have been early in the season either way.

vacantlook May 25th 10 05:54

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeD80 (Post 361826)
He didn't mention that Sinclair was Valen though; he only mentioned that Minbari souls were in human bodies. It's also not yet evident that Sinclair went back in time which is how he was Valen in the first place. All the pieces for solving this mystery are not in place in this episode, even though we learn a bit. According to Joe, learning what Lennier says here was originally going to occur in episode 3 of season 2 if Sinclair was still there, so it still would have been early in the season either way.

Well, interestingly about that, it wasn't until Michael O'Hare decided to leave the show that jms decided to make Sinclair be Valen. The memo, or outline, or whatever you want to call it that got released in the bonus volume of the Babylon 5 scriptbooks reveals that the original plan for the show never included the Sinclair=Valen element. In that original plan, no one went back in time at all: Babylon 4 was taken forward in time to replace Babylon 5 after it had been blown up by the Minbari after the Warrior Caste had expelled the Grey Council from the Minbari government.

Estelyn May 25th 10 15:43

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 
That's interesting information about the original plan for B4! I hadn't read that yet.

One thing I noticed about Lennier at the beginning of this season is that he looks changed - more serious, less innocent. Do you think his concern for Delenn's change has affected him in this way? It seems that he has a sense of protectiveness toward her, and of course during her time in the cocoon he is the top-ranking Minbari on the station, so carries the weight of additional responsibility.

KoshFan May 25th 10 15:43

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 
And now that you mention it, I remember most of our information on Valen coming later, after S1...

Sindatur May 25th 10 16:05

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vacantlook (Post 361844)
Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeD80 (Post 361826)
He didn't mention that Sinclair was Valen though; he only mentioned that Minbari souls were in human bodies. It's also not yet evident that Sinclair went back in time which is how he was Valen in the first place. All the pieces for solving this mystery are not in place in this episode, even though we learn a bit. According to Joe, learning what Lennier says here was originally going to occur in episode 3 of season 2 if Sinclair was still there, so it still would have been early in the season either way.

Well, interestingly about that, it wasn't until Michael O'Hare decided to leave the show that jms decided to make Sinclair be Valen. The memo, or outline, or whatever you want to call it that got released in the bonus volume of the Babylon 5 scriptbooks reveals that the original plan for the show never included the Sinclair=Valen element. In that original plan, no one went back in time at all: Babylon 4 was taken forward in time to replace Babylon 5 after it had been blown up by the Minbari after the Warrior Caste had expelled the Grey Council from the Minbari government.

Thanks VL, that is news to me. I always thought Sinclair was always destined to be Valen (but, at the end of the Series). Then JMS started thinking about how he had way too much on Sinclair's plate to be believable for just 1 character, so he decided to bring in another character about half way through the Series (Sheridan) and have Sinclair become Valen mid way through the Series. Then, when Michael O'Hare left after first season, JMS simply sped up the timeline of bringing Sheridan into the mix, but, left Sinclair becoming Valen at mid way through the Series.

JoeD80 May 25th 10 17:21

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vacantlook (Post 361844)
Well, interestingly about that, it wasn't until Michael O'Hare decided to leave the show that jms decided to make Sinclair be Valen.

Not quite right. According to Joe the Valen plot was thought up about 2/3 of the way through the first season. That's why Delenn says in Voice in the Wilderness that Sinclair has a destiny. At the end of season one, plans were still there to have Sinclair in place. As late as April (filming of season one wrapped in March) Joe mentioned Sinclair's brother arriving soon. The talks with Michael O'Hare didn't occur until the hiatus between seasons, and the official switch of commanding officer was in the May 1st memo. In the script book Joe talks about having Valen return from 20 years ahead, or having to take Babylon 4 in to the future in case of cancellation in the 3rd season. It seems from this description that he had the Valen idea at least as early as Babylon Squared (which would be slightly past 2/3 in).

Lennier's Tears December 22nd 15 02:42

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 
I like Points of Departure. Yea, it's kind of introduction-ey, but still, I think it has a lot going for it. Not the least of which is the introduction of Sheridan. I'm still kind of sad that there is VERY little Sinclair after this, but I do like the Sheridan character, and I like the introduction of his character here. I'm apparently the only person here who finds his odd food obsessions amusing/entertaining. It reminds me a little bit of Agent Cooper on Twin Peaks. I guess Sheridan gets over it after he gets used to having access to stuff he didn't have on the Agamemnon, though he does always appear to have oranges in his quarters in later episodes.

Anyway, the Trigati stuff is pretty much your general "angry Warrior Caste Minbari" plotline, except now it illustrates the whole Sheridan Starkiller thing, which works alright.

I like that we're suddenly getting a lot more information about the Battle of the Line and the Minbari secrets surrounding the surrender and all that, explained by Lennier, no less. Then Lennier gives us (the audience) a teeny little bit more of the story than he gave the human characters on the show, by way of telling Delenn's cocoon, which is less clunky than some other exposition scenes and it would make anyone all curious about "the two halves of our souls uniting against the coming darkness".



But, all that aside, can we talk about the opening credits?? The opening credits on the DVD set I have, show post-cocoon Delenn. It bothers me immensely, and I'm pretty sure that the VHS set didn't show her until AFTER the reveal in Revelations. Ever since I've gotten the DVDs, when I watch with someone new to the show (it's happened a few times), I make a huge effort to distract them during the opening credits for the first two episodes of Season 2 because I don't want that reveal spoilered. Amazingly, that has actually worked :p

Stuff and things:
  • "We don't harm our own kind. We never have". NEVER? Are we going to pretend those pre-Valen years didn't happen? :p
  • Why does everyone walk into Delenn's quarters like that? Also, is the cocoon in her bedroom?
  • Why/how does Clarke know about the Minbari surrender / soul thing.

Springer December 23rd 15 12:43

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 
I can't remember what was on the VHS, but when it first aired on TV the first two episodes of season 2 definitely had season 1 Delenn in the credits. Just another reason why the DVDs suck.

Regarding how Clark knows, the JMS-written first issue of the comic explains this a little bit. (Spoilers, I guess.) After Chrysalis, Sinclair was recalled to Earth, and in the comic he goes to Earthdome and meets both Clark and Rathenn, who explains everything to him. Clark says he only found out about it when he took office, but that EarthGov had known at the time what had happened to Sinclair and had given permission for the Minbari to wipe his memory.

I think I'm right in saying that issue actually came out before Points of Departure aired, in the US? Although I remember buying it from the local comic shop, I'm sure I didn't read it until afterwards. Probably the best issue of the comic.


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