Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 

Hello, I'm new to the forum, so be kind!

Points of Departure: I was hovering between a B and a C for this episode. Compared to the rest of season 2, it feels very different, and to be honest I found that many of the season openers had a different feel to them. Its hard to explain- maybe its just the series trying to find its feet again at the start of the new season.

The first time you see this episode it feels massively significant, what with the arrival of Sheridan and Lennier revealing to him and Ivanova what happened to Sinclair at the Battle of the Line. But now, looking back, it doesn't feel that important.

In this episode we see one of the big EA destroyers for the first time- I really like those ships. And Sheridan takes a huge risk at the end when interpreting what the Minbari captain had said, I suppose to show that he has a tactical brain and can 'think outside the box' but it doesn't quite come off as convincing to me.

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 

Yeah, I know what you're saying. This first ep of season 2 is kinda like a whole new show. There's no more Commander Sinclair, but a Captain Sheridan instead. That in itself gives a new feel to season 2. Plus Delenn is in her cocoon. After she comes out, she's not the same Delenn any more. Plus Garibaldi is in Medlab with a PPG wound.

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 

Delenn isn't the same character peiod once Sinclair leaves and Sheridan comes in .

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 

Some visual things change as well.. The blue earth force uniforms gain a red trim and flight wings. Garibaldi's grey uniform gains a green trim and flight wings. (The changes cause a slight anomaly in the continuity, since the EA uniforms in In the Beginning feature these trims and badges..)

Some of the sets are also redesigned, specifically the corridor walls have a new colour and texture, and C&C gets a facelift. It really is a completely different show..

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 

Man, I never notice stuff like that.

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 

I love this episode for the way it really drives in a very important plot point of B5 that way too many people seem to forget: The Minbari suck.

So you're fighting a "holy war" over a misunderstanding, that you KNOW to be a misunderstanding. Your holy war isn't anything more than genocide, effectively. Somewhere along the line, one human manages to defend himself and actually hurts your war machine - he doesn't even injure any civilians.

So what do you do, as a species completely obsessed with honor?

You go "boo hoo, starkiller, starkiller!" and spend several decades whining. What a bunch of pisspots. Reminds me of the asshole German that assaulted my mother a few years ago for all the pain Germany went through at the US' hands in World War II. Want to avoid pain and suffering? Don't wage unnecessary wars.

Also, all this crap of how MInbari never lie and never hurt eachother .. like hell they don't. They're just better at it than everybody else.

Oh, and the only thing that made them willing to stop pointless genocide? Noticing that humans have Minbari souls, which is a load of crap anyways. What pure motives...

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 

Yea. Very good points. :)

I don't think there really was a race or a character that didn't have a dark side and a light side, so to speak. The "seemingly sacred" Minbari included.

I wonder, with people being who they are, enough of a word got about among Humans that Valen was really Sinclair, gone back through time with station B4. They'd be stunned to know the race that gave the Minbari such an edge in technology was... us. :D

I know the Minbari already had spacefleets able to survive space battles. But wouldn't that "sneak peek" at future technology help spur what they already knew?

Maybe not, and they were just advanced because they evolved earlier than we, and the Vorlons gave them a lot of help. But I've always wondered just how much the Minbari learned technologically from Sinclar, as well as what they learned about organizing themselves into some kind of an effective government.

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 

Very nice intro to Captain John Sheridan (Bruce Boxleitner) I really love this episode even though a whole lot doesn't happen until the very next episode Revelations. Minor complaint on this thread.. I was going to vote but it's shown as Quality of Mercy? I love Sinclair but Bruce Boxlietner has a way of putting a smile on everyone's face even non Babylon 5 fans :) Garibaldi still in coma..I can't wait til he's out of it ;)

Alex

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 

Yes, indeed. But at least the other races seem quite aware of that. The Humans, Narns and Centauri never pretend to not have their own agenda. The Minbari, on the other hand, go around with all the pseudo-pacifist holier-than-thou crap, which really makes them the biggest creep of the lot - with the exception of the Vorlons, of course.

Well .. the Minbari were keeping this knowledge under a pretty tight lid - though I forget exactly what happens in the fourth season here. Not sure if humans would have ever gotten to hear about it.

This is the kind of stuff which makes time travel stories headachy.

I don't think human tech from the "present" was much ahead of Minbari tech from a thousand years ago. The Minbari would have come out losers of the last shadow war without Babylon 4 and Sinclair, though, and would not have been the smug major power to attempt to erradicate humans thousand years later. And no Earth-Minbari war .. no Babylon project.

No Minbari victory --> no Babylon 4.
No Babylon 4 --> no Minbari victory

It all kind of works out in the end if you see time as circular, and assume that the Minbari victory, and B4's trip back in time, were "always there" .. or something.

There is a bug with poll titles on older polls. It is only the titles, though, you can vote normally.

Re: EpDis: Points Of Departure
 

Re-watching the series again, and reading up on the comments again. So, read this and thought to correct it :)

It was established that the Minbari win the war 1000 years ago without B4, however, at the cost of more Vorlons / troops, therefore they have the inability to survive the war that is to come ... hence the foreshadowing in Season 1 about B5 being destroyed. That was the future that was going to be, if B4 wasn't sent back in time.

That is one thing I really liked about B5, time travel was used, but it wasn't to crazy in its circular logic.

S.