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-   -   EpDis: Chrysalis (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=7682)

vacantlook March 14th 05 09:04

EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Season one finale!

Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for Chrysalis
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for Chrysalis

Shaal Mayan March 14th 05 12:50

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
I love this episode it has all the previous buildups from all the year.I give this one an A but I almost gave this one a B cause two of my favorite people leave one literally that of course is Micheal O'Hare as Sinclair the other is Delenn after a fashion the reason I say this is because I think she loses her mystery anf aura when she was a full minbari .In later years she is just a human with a half bone on her head. :( This one part of the series I don't agree on is her metamorphis into a human.

KoshFan March 14th 05 14:24

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
A true classic. A major wham episode, although in comparison with some of the others it does seem fairly tame.

RW7427 March 14th 05 16:15

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Excellent! :cool:

deaded March 14th 05 20:35

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
No doubt an A list episode.

Sinclair March 14th 05 20:40

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
This is my favorite episode of the first season, and possibly of the entire series. So many things happen and change in this episode, and as Sinclair said, "Nothing's the same anymore." This pretty much sets things up for the rest of the series.

This is the last appearance of the readheaded dome tech chick, :( not to mention Sinclair's last appearance as a main cast member.

RMcD March 15th 05 09:30

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
B5 had a tradition of jaw-dropping season enders and this stunning quadruple-whammy cliffhanger was a brilliant way to keep us on tenterhooks for Season 2. The moment when Earth Force One explodes is, I think, the moment that B5 finally grows up and demands to be taken seriously. A completely changed series. A+!

GKarsEye March 15th 05 14:12

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
I'll just quote my sister after watching this episode:

"What the fuck?!"

Ninja_Squirrel March 15th 05 15:35

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Is that a good WTF, a bad WTF, or an ugly WTF? :lol:

B5obsessive March 15th 05 19:32

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
How the heck not, vacantlook? :eek: The transformation is one of the most original ideas I've seen on TV. Also, she and John couldn't get together without it. Personally, I find the 1st season Delenn way too aloof and distant and cold, and maybe slighty arrogant. The new Delenn has fire and steel ("BE SOMEWHERE ELSE!"), and it takes being cut off from her own people to bring that out. Anyway great ep, Jeff's proposal is classic, and after about 20 runs I STILL wince when Micheal gets shot. Oh, and the build up to the explosion and the moment itself still makes me go cold with apprehension then get that "Oh my..." feeling, like a punch the stomach. First-time viewers used to usual TV rules are secure in the knowledge that "the day will be saved" and then... BOOM! Pure brilliance.

vacantlook March 15th 05 21:21

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Quote:

How the heck not, vacantlook?

I haven't yet commented in this thread, so you're obviously not talking to me. :confused:

Shaal Mayan March 15th 05 21:34

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Quote:

Also, she and John couldn't get together without it


I think it's my post he or she is referring to.But that's one of things I don't like .I mean it seemed from the minute Sheridan came on board I knew Delenn was going to marry him :mad:As you can see I am not a big Sheridan fan .That would have been one of the best parts of the series if she hadn't married him .I always thought Delenn deserved someone else other than Sheridan Starkiller.

RMcD March 15th 05 22:51

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
It would've been funny if she'd played it straight right up to that scene in Season 4 where Sheridan finds the engagement ring under the chair, makes his little speech about downpayment on a wedding ring, and then turned him down. That would've been one hell of a twist.. :D

Granite March 16th 05 07:01

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
I enjoyed this episode considerably more after listening to JMS commentary. It was a storke of writing genuis to have the actors unaware of the direction that this episode would take.

Ex 1) Mira Furlan constructed the crysalis apparatus throughout season 1, and had no idea what it would be until she was told during the filiming of crysalis

Ex 2) Garibaldi's second in command character was changed dramatically to the "bad guy" in this episode, another example of a change that the actor was not aware of.

Both examples illustrate that JMS was building a saga, with events and actions hinted in whispers that would alter the course of the entire show later on.

deaded March 16th 05 20:39

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Quote:

It was a storke of writing genuis

Totally, I know what you mean. I love those storkes (they taste like chicken).

Granite March 16th 05 23:03

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Storkes taste like duck not chicken! :p

but without getting too off topic...

I also liked the JFK assassination parallels in the ep

deaded March 17th 05 06:07

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
True. And JFK kind of tasted like Quale.

(I mean Quail)

Springer April 3rd 05 19:50

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Another excellent episode. Great action, great tension (Garibaldi crawling towards the lift, can he warn about the assasination atempt in time? )a great mysteryand wonder. Everything starts to hit the fan here, like Sinclair says, "Nothing's the same anymore..." It would have been interesting to see just where things would have led had Michael O'Hare stayed with the show. Would it have been Catherine Sakai mysteriously returning from Z'Ha'Dum at the end of season three, not Anna Sheridan?

We get our first proper look at the Shadow's vessels in battle, and the destruction of Earth Force One is a major turning point. And then right at the end we get our first glimpse of the Shadows themselves. I thought this was a fantastic episode the first time round, and I still get a thrill watching it now, because there is a feeling that anything could happen, the audience knows it, and by the end the charcters have come to know it.

Chilli June 23rd 05 23:52

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Awesome .. there is no other word for it. This episode converted me to a complete fan of Babylon 5 in 15 minutes. I had never seen any of it properly before sitting down to see the last half of the episode .. once it was done, I was rushing to the closest book store looking for episode guides and trying to figure out how many more episodes there would be and got VHS tapes to tape every last episode of it - an honour that at the time was only reserved to one other TV show - Star Trek.

bobbyboy August 3rd 05 16:44

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Quote:

It would have been interesting to see just where things would have led had Michael O'Hare stayed with the show. Would it have been Catherine Sakai mysteriously returning from Z'Ha'Dum at the end of season three, not Anna Sheridan?

For the last time: NO!!! Sakai would never have had the role of Anna Sheridan because of one tiny detail: the Shadows had already been awoken in Season 1. And there would be no blowing up Z'ha'dum, no Lorien, no ISA, etc.

JMS already said this a dozen times: Sheridan wasn't created to replace Sinclair with the same character but a different name, any more than Lochley was there to play the role of Ivanova; they were different characters with different unrelated arcs.

That same mistake of transfering one character to another led a lot of people to think that Ivanova would end up with Takashima's mole arc, which was not the case.

GKarsEye August 3rd 05 17:21

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
That's not quite true. JMS admitted that he came up with Sheridan becuase he realised that he couldn't lay everything on Sinclair, which means Sinclair originally was supposed to defeat the Shadows in the "present" and also go back in time and become Valen.

The Shadows being awake is a very small point. If, for the sake of argument, Sakai would have had the Anna Sheridan plot line if Sinclair stayed, then the Shadows could have been "awake" by someone else. No problem.

Also, I thnk some people take this "waking up the Shadows" bit too literally, as if the Shadows were all completely inactive until the Icarus visited. The Icarus landed on Z'ha D'um after the Earth-Minbari War, yet before the war the Vorlons were already starting to forge alliances and make plans (as shown in In the Beginning).

vacantlook August 3rd 05 17:55

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Also, the Icarus was sent to Z'ha'dum only after Earth had snuck a tracking device onto the Shadow ship found buried on Mars and tracked the ship back to Z'ha'dum. And that ship on Mars was cut out and revitalized by another Shadow ship, so Shadows had to be moving to some degree well prior to the Icarus landing on Z'ha'dum.

B5_Obsessed August 3rd 05 18:31

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
The fact that both of Sinclair's girlfriends, Carolyn Sykes and Catherine Sakai, were set up as interplanetary prospectors is too great a coincidence to ignore. We had already seen (in Parliament of Dreams?) that Sakai could be reckless and not heed G'Kar's warning. If things had not changed, G'Kar probably would've ended up commenting on that. Also, Sinclair was set to get married at the end of Season 1, then *poof* no Sakai ever again (on TV anyway), but on the second episode of Season 2, JMS quickly plots out the "death" of Sheridan's wife. If Sinclair had stayed, Sakai could have disappeared in early Season 2 on a mission, one that IPX would deny any knowledge of, and returned a year later. I think it would have been a much better payoff than the ultimate usage of Sheridan's wife (just like Takashima shooting Garibaldi in the back after a full season on the show would've blown our friggin' minds).

GKarsEye August 3rd 05 19:10

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Yes, I was going to make that point. The "return" of Anna Sheridan is a nice moment but imagine if it had been a return of Shadow-robot Sakai!

Ranger1 January 21st 08 23:17

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
someone may have to explain this to me (i haven't read the books so may not be privvy to some vital bit of information) when sinclair is watching clark get sworn in, kosh "glides" up behind him and says "so it begins" suggesting he knows exactly what sort of man clark is and the trouble he will cause... How does he know this?

Galahad January 22nd 08 00:23

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
My quick answer is that Kosh had been inside Valen's mind and therefore had shared the memories of Sinclair in his personal past. This also explains how he knew he was going to die... and why it was necessary for hm to do so.

Ranger1 January 22nd 08 00:53

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad (Post 314691)
My quick answer is that Kosh had been inside Valen's mind and therefore had shared the memories of Sinclair in his personal past. This also explains how he knew he was going to die... and why it was necessary for hm to do so.

obviously i missed that (from one of the books right? the only B5 literature i have read so far is a copy of space, time and the incurable romantic.).

Galahad January 22nd 08 08:11

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Well I was going more on the idea that Kosh said he had touched one person's mind before, in the same way he had touched Sheridan's... and that would have been Valen. I think this is hinted at in the extended version of the Gathering where Kosh greets Sinclair with an "Ent'hil Zha Valen", though I haven't seen it.

BYEVJZTS January 25th 08 15:17

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Gave this one an A, excellent episode. I was going to mention what Kosh had said "And so it begins" until ranger1 mentioned it a few posts up. However I never thought about the timing of kosh's statement just after Clark's sworn in. The quote below has helped clear a question i always pondered about...how could Kosh know that Sheridan was so important? It was obvious why he respected Sinclair but until now, Sheridan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad (Post 314691)
My quick answer is that Kosh had been inside Valen's mind and therefore had shared the memories of Sinclair in his personal past. This also explains how he knew he was going to die... and why it was necessary for hm to do so.

PS. When i was first started to watch B5 around 3 years ago now, i was umming and arring about B5, season 1 did not grip me until this very episode. It was the Shadow vessels in battle (well slaughter really) and at the very end, seeing the Shadow's themselves. After that...I bought season after season, i was hooked. I'm still trying to get missus to watch it (she loves Stargate) and she's watched a few but she's having none of it.

Got to keep trying.

Cell September 19th 08 16:18

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
http://worldsoforos.com/secondviews/...babylon-5-122/

maneth September 20th 08 16:39

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
I just wonder if Carolyn Sykes and Catherine Sakai weren't meant to be the same person originally... Both being explorers and both having the initials CS makes me wonder...

It would have been rather interesting if the show had ended with Sinclair going back to the past... Although I don't think Michael O'Hare would have been the actor to carry that off. Although a Sinclair-Delenn relationship might have been interesting, given that she's Valen's descendant about 30 generations removed.

Cell September 23rd 08 18:16

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Figured this was as good of a place as any,

Season 1: Signs And Portents (1994)
http://worldsoforos.com/secondviews/...season-1-1994/

Elipsis September 24th 08 15:43

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maneth (Post 328985)

It would have been rather interesting if the show had ended with Sinclair going back to the past... Although I don't think Michael O'Hare would have been the actor to carry that off. Although a Sinclair-Delenn relationship might have been interesting, given that she's Valen's descendant about 30 generations removed.


I'm glad that didn't happen... it would have been pretty awkward. I think it was much better than the relationship between Sinclair and Delenn was a much different thing than the relationship between Sheridan and Delenn. (And of course their child would be descended from both Sheridan and Sinclair, making him by definition epic.)

Cell November 9th 08 22:23

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Having just finished rereading The Passing Of The Techno-Mages: Book I: Casting Shadows, I was taken aback by how it factored into this episode. I completely forgot whom the novel placed in the first Shadow Battle-Crab we see attacking the Narn forces at Quadrant 37. That revelation just serves to make this episode all the better in my mind and adds a little bit more of that insider feeling, where we know the fact that such a big character is present even though no one else does.

G'Kar February 4th 09 22:58

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Definitely an A. My favorite season finale after Z'ha'dum.

Estelyn May 21st 10 22:46

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
This is a fantastic episode! It manages to pack so much information into a tight schedule and creates an enormous amount of suspense, while simultaneously breaking through the usual clichés. In any other show, Garibaldi would have been able to warn EF 1 on time, and a reasonably happy end would have ensued. His struggle to rescue both himself and the President is a truly moving scene.

I always find it scariest when someone trusted by the characters turns out to be a traitor - there's no way to defend yourself in such a case.

But the episode begins with happy stuff - Sinclair's proposal is delightfully awkward for someone who has to speak diplomatically in his position! And on New Year's Eve it looks like things are heading toward a happy end for him. Cutting back and forth between the celebrating and the struggle behind the scenes is great.

*Now* we find out what was hinted at in a previous episode by the word "chrysalis". The cliff hanger ending leaves us in the dark as to Delenn's transformation - what will she be? - and Garibaldi's fate - will his aide manage to finish him off? And what will become the major element of future seasons, the development of Shadow interference, especially in relationship to the Centauri and Narn, begins - how will it continue? The foreboding is certainly warranted...

Lennier's Tears December 20th 15 03:59

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
I find I have surprisingly little to say about Chrysalis. It's a great season ender! This is Babylon 5 at its Babylon 5-iest. There's so much stuff going on, it's all very exciting. Imagine having to wait to see what happens next! (maybe you don't have to imagine if you can remember watching this on TV when it first aired :p )

I have a hard time remembering how things looked to me upon first viewing, but I seem to remember expecting the assassination plot to fail. It's still a bit shocking to me now, seeing Earth Force I explode.

Upon first viewing, I also didn't know this was the last we would ever see of Commander Sinclair. It still makes me kind of sad when I watch it now. I really do like his character.

"Nothing's the same anymore", indeed.

(Oh, and it's the episode my userpic is from!)

Jan December 21st 15 20:19

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennier's Tears (Post 452422)
(Oh, and it's the episode my userpic is from!)

I'd wondered, thanks.

Jan

Lennier's Tears December 22nd 15 01:58

Re: EpDis: Chrysalis
 
It's this scene of him sitting there, while you can hear some whimpering sounds coming from the direction of the chrysalis, in between Sinclair giving instructions to Garibaldi's second in Medlab, and G'Kar and Na'Toth talking to Ivanova on the train thing.
http://www.lotje.be/fanstuff/chrysalis_lennier.jpg
I THINK this is the only time in the whole series Lennier is shown crying (a single tear :p ) so I HAD to get my userpic from that one ;)


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