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-   -   EpDis: Babylon Squared (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=7602)

vacantlook February 26th 05 20:17

EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
First EpDis on the updated board! :D

Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for Babylon Squared
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for Babylon Squared

vacantlook February 26th 05 20:20

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
"Babylon Squared" is definitely an A episode for me. It gave us some, but no where near all, information on the only previously referenced Babylon 4. We got introduced to the ever lovely Zathras! And we got the weird mystery of who is "The One."

Shaal Mayan February 26th 05 21:53

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
A from me good in all respects setting up the mystery of the one and minbari prophecy .

FreeBaGeL February 27th 05 02:24

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
The first A I've given thus far.

KoshFan February 27th 05 16:05

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Can you say "foreshadowing?"

The only disappointing parts about this episode are the acting by the B4 station commander and the fact that BSquared doesn't match perfectly with War Without End.

Quite the strong episode, with all kinds of mysteries and stuff going on, character development for Sinclair and Garibaldi and Delenn, some interesting new science stuff, and so forth.

vacantlook February 27th 05 17:18

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Yeah, Major Krantz, like many guest characters on the show in season one, often goes quite a bit over the top.

RMcD February 27th 05 22:24

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
I do wonder exactly to what extent the other half of this arc actually changed after Michael O' Hare left. Presumably what we're really seeing in the brief scene when they touch are husband and wife Sinclair and Delenn saying their final tearful goodbyes before he rides back into the past to fulfil his ineluctable destiny as Valen... And then Delenn gets up every morning before dawn to watch the sun come up.. (this being the same alternate universe in which a determined Sinclair crashes the nukes into Z'ha'dum at the end of Season 3 as a Shadow-possessed Catherine Sakai advances slowly towards him..)

Babylon Squared is a good solid A for being completely off the wall, and because the mere act of making an episode like this demonstrated such incredible faith in the series' future (or on the other hand, perhaps JMS just never seriously believed they'd end up having to make the other half :))..

Alluveal February 27th 05 22:27

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
It's story ground-work at its best. W/o it, we wouldn't have our beloved the War Without End (Pt 1 and 2.)

deaded February 28th 05 00:32

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Babylon Squared is a lynch-pin (sp?) in the B5 series. Definitely in my top 20 episodes.

KoshFan February 28th 05 01:01

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Ah, but was the Delenn/Sinclair romance ever scripted for Sinclair? The "marriage" scene is notoriously a red herring.

And I do not think Delenn could have loved Sinclair as deeply as she loved Sheridan. She would always be a little too much involved in seeing to Sinclair's destiny, whereas she developed her friendship with Sheridan as one ally to another, not as an agent of prophecy.

Jade Jaguar February 28th 05 01:50

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
In other words, Delenn wasn't inclined to marry for prophet. :D

hypatia February 28th 05 01:59

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Quote:

In other words, Delenn wasn't inclined to marry for prophet. :D

:rolleyes:

Wow. Imagine that. The Narn Bat Squad is more than willing to do this job for free. :)

Personally, I think it makes perfect sense to have Delenn fall in love, marry Sinclair, get pregnant and then at the very end of the series learn along with the rest of them who he was destined to be.

But I don't know much about what JMS has confirmed and/or denied. But it would have made one hell of an ending to a 5-year series.

2aMageing February 28th 05 04:15

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Quote:

In other words, Delenn wasn't inclined to marry for prophet. :D

owwwww..........OWWWWWWWW........that hurt........funny, but still............owwwwwww
:rolleyes: .......... :D



Actually I'd give this episode a B..........Considering it was almost entirely dedicated to foreshadowing and development and didn't really have a complete story of it's own, it was quite well done.

Buuuuuuuut........since it DID have the legendary Fasten/Zip Zip/Fasten controversy.......... :D .....I guess I can bump it to an A-......... :)

GKarsEye February 28th 05 04:28

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
This is an off-the-chart A episode. This is the ep where, if you're watching the show for the first time and you hadn't realised this is something different and special, this is what knocks that into your skull.

For those like me who love being confused and watching weird shit, it's great.

IIRC, JMS claims Delenn would never have hooked up with Delenn. The only think I think I'm sure that would have happened had Sinclair staid is that War Without End would have been the last episode of the series.

deaded February 28th 05 07:57

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Quote:


IIRC, JMS claims Delenn would never have hooked up with Delenn

No, I never thought that would happen either :rolleyes:

A_M_Swallow February 28th 05 14:37

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
One possibility is that a General escapes Earth and joins Babylon 5 in season 2 or 3. When Sinclair goes to Z'ha'dum the General takes over Babylon 5. Sinclair gets injured on Z'ha'dum, returns with Lorien and then takes Babylon 4 back in time. The two stations fight the Shadow War on two fronts. After "In to the Fire" the General attacks Earth.

vacantlook February 28th 05 16:35

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
I have also thought that such a "General" would have been the original way things would have gone, as Andrew says. I've even wondered if it might have been General Hague himself that would have filled such a position.

B5_Obsessed February 28th 05 18:11

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Quote:

(this being the same alternate universe in which a determined Sinclair crashes the nukes into Z'ha'dum at the end of Season 3 as a Shadow-possessed Catherine Sakai advances slowly towards him..)

Hell, go for broke. Why not make it the original planetary prospector Carolyn Sikes? If you follow the original story for her and Sinclair, he probably would have decided to get married and leave the station just like she suggested in "The Gathering". He was a True Seeker after all.

"Oh, but first, Jeff, I have to run one more survey on the Rim. See you in a couple of weeks...... "

B5obsessive February 28th 05 19:46

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Really good ep, and without it WWE1+2 would make our heads explode. (Time-travel stories still give me a migrane) The breakfast scene is a classic (Michael is a very brave and/or stupid man!) But Major Krantz! Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear. :eek: I love that bit when Susan says "And I missed it!" Um, no, you didn't. Believe it or not, you were there the whole time! All in all, a B++, as my A's are reserved for a few VERY special episodes.

KoshFan February 28th 05 20:31

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
I forgot the breakfast scene. My favorite bits are Sinclair telling Garibaldi, "I'll notify your next of kin" and then looking furtively in the direction Ivanova left as he hurries off in the opposite direction.

KoshFan February 28th 05 20:32

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
I just had the strangest thought -- is Ivanova's trouble waking up in S1 a sort of precursor to her not being able to sleep at all in "The Hour of the Wolf?"

Ivanova has a lot of dreams and sleep stuff, come to think of it -- the famous "totally... unprepared for work" dream, and her dreams in Thirdspace, too.

Jade Jaguar February 28th 05 23:25

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Quote:

Quote:


IIRC, JMS claims Delenn would never have hooked up with Delenn

No, I never thought that would happen either :rolleyes:


Well, Franklin DID hook up with Franklin, so, nothing's impossible. But I have to agree with GKE, this is an excellent ep.

hypatia March 1st 05 00:28

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Quote:


Buuuuuuuut........since it DID have the legendary Fasten/Zip Zip/Fasten controversy.......... :D .....I guess I can bump it to an A-......... :)

What is it with guys and their fascination with that "fasten/zip" scene? Just curious. :)

2aMageing March 1st 05 02:16

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
It's an anal, obsessive compusive's, amature sociological/psychological analysis, dream-come-true survey question................. :rolleyes: :D

:lol:


Take it from a card carrying, anal, obsessive compusive, amature sociologist/psychologist.
It's great stuff..........

:)

2aMageing March 1st 05 02:18

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Quote:

I forgot the breakfast scene. My favorite bits are Sinclair telling Garibaldi, "I'll notify your next of kin" and then looking furtively in the direction Ivanova left as he hurries off in the opposite direction.


It had the "quick meal" joke in it TOO???? Well, hell, that's an A+ episode............. "3.......2.......1...........GARIBALDI!!!!........ YOU'RE A DEAD MAN!!!!!!!!!!"........... :D poetry in humor........

hypatia March 1st 05 03:00

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Quote:

It's an anal, obsessive compusive's, amature sociological/psychological analysis, dream-come-true survey question................. :rolleyes: :D

:lol:


Take it from a card carrying, anal, obsessive compusive, amature sociologist/psychologist.
It's great stuff..........

:)

:lol:

O.K. I thought I was missing some kind of an inside joke. I had no idea I was missing a whole inside psychological analysis there... :eek:

;)

2aMageing March 1st 05 03:06

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
:D

Never underestimate an obsessive compulsive's capacity to come at things from totally unforeseeable directions............ :p

deaded March 1st 05 09:13

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Quote:

It's an anal, obsessive compusive's, amature sociological/psychological analysis, dream-come-true survey question................. :rolleyes: :D

:lol:


Take it from a card carrying, anal, obsessive compusive, amature sociologist/psychologist.
It's great stuff..........

:)

Yup. Being a doctor and a card-carying obsessive compulsive I can vouch for that.

But BEING an obsessive compulsive I tend to spell obsessive-compulsive correctly ;) LOL!

2aMageing March 1st 05 11:15

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Misspellings tend to happen when you are of the "Hyperactive" Obsessive Compulsive variety........ :D .......not as bad as some.......certainly worse than others....... :)



How on EARTH did I miss the L......TWICE.....IN A ROW.........see now the obssessive compuLsive coming out to kick his own arse for not getting it at least 50% right......?!?! :lol:

deaded March 2nd 05 03:58

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Sorry, the board members of the obsessive compulsive club have decided to put you on suspension. Well, actually, half of us did. The other half missed the vote because they had to run back home to make sure they didn't leave the gas on.

2aMageing March 2nd 05 07:08

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Dam........I just realized......I don't know if I locked the door when I left................but since I'm already back home........I'm not sure I locked the door after I got in..........I better go check.......again.......... :rolleyes:

Chilli June 24th 05 00:00

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Straight A. The eventual resolve could have been better, but given the way things changed in the show till then, they did a good job with the situation they were in. The resolve definitely suffered from Sinclair leaving though - I'm quite sure that the time anomoly that aged Sinclair was made up to cover for the original plan - Sinclair actually being 20 years older, this happening 20 years in the future, in the last episode of Babylon 5.

Also the "the One" being three thing .. I also feel certain that if Sinclair has stayed, he would have been the One .. the One One.

I wonder where Sinclair would have gotten his scar if he had remained.

Hmpf, have a huge test tomorrow, too nervous to sleep and have studied too much to make more studying a possibility .. seems like thread necromancy is a good way to deal with insomnia :rolleyes:

B5obsessive June 25th 05 20:40

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Quote:


Hmpf, have a huge test tomorrow, too nervous to sleep and have studied too much to make more studying a possibility .. seems like thread necromancy is a good way to deal with insomnia :rolleyes:

Set up the garden hose and think happy thoughts then! :D :lol:

Cell September 13th 08 15:06

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
http://worldsoforos.com/secondviews/...babylon-5-120/

G'Kar February 4th 09 23:05

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
One of my favorite episodes of the season behind the season finale. Always liked this episode especially because it gave a reason for Sinclair to come back later on in the series.

Estelyn May 21st 10 21:21

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
I agree - this is a pivotal, excellently done episode. There are so many details that tie into the story arc and hint at the changes to come.

Delenn is at the pinnacle of her "career", being nominated as the leader of her people, but she is also at the threshold to being cast out and alienated. Of course her reasons for staying on B5 are largely mysterious to us at this point.

Zathras is a wonderful character! He manages to be very humorous without being in the least ridiculous, and his lines are eminently quotable.

One of the best episodes of the first season!

Lennier's Tears October 13th 15 02:14

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
Babylon Squared is a great episode. I love how it quietly sits right next to A Voice in the Wilderness, as though the two have nothing to do with each other :) Mostly I love how it shows us a glimpse of what is to come, and how it fits so seamlessly with WWE (OK, except for those details that couldn't quite line up). I do agree with Chilli that it would have lined up even better if there hadn't been any changes to the story as originally conceived, but I think it works out very well, and the way those three episodes play out together is one of my favorite things about Babylon 5.

The list of little things:
  • Sinclair is explaining how every Earth ship/station has a unique ID code, but whom is he explaining this to? Garibaldi? Presumably he already knows this. More likely it's to us, the audience and that's just the best way they could fit that exposition in there.
  • Those guards on B4 are the WORST. They're just standing there looking at each other as Zathras leaves the room, wait a few seconds, and then run after him.
  • Why isn't the triluminary glowing when Delenn holds her hand up against it?

Springer October 13th 15 14:32

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
I remember as a kid, just 14 years old, I'd watch the last four or five episodes of season 1 on the VHS I'd recorded over and over again until season 2 began, those episodes seemed so epic to me. Babylon Squared and Chrysalis in particular were my favourites and while everything that was awesome about Chrysalis was there on screen, with Babylon Squared much of its greatness was inferred and I think that's both its great strength and weakness. The promise of seeing the flip-side of this story and a time when the galaxy is at war, as well as that giant battle on the station was tremendously exciting. Who was attacking? Why were they attacking? Would anyone survive? As a kid my imagination ran riot and the scenarios I imagined were far beyond what was possible with a TV show budget! With that in mind, WWE could never hope to meet my expectations, although WWE is pretty damn epic in its own right. But every time I watch Babylon Squared, it feels special, I remember what it felt like to watch it in 1994, and partly because of that it feels really unique – what the series could have been, and what I imagined it could be. Not that I'm complaining about how the series turned out, mind!

Mororless October 23rd 15 02:09

Re: EpDis: Babylon Squared
 
The interesting thing looking back for me is that at the time you were dealing with a TV environment where such extended storytelling was rare and if you did get a "wrap up" it was often a much more ambiguous one such as TNG or Quantum Leap.

Whilst Babylon Squared and several other late season 1 episodes did offer strong hints in this direction I remember at the time thinking that we might not ever know for sure what this "great war" B4 was being stolen to fight actually was.

These is of course a certain appeal of mystery and the unknown which arguably cannot ever be replicated by actually filling in the details however well its done and I think these late season 1 episodes(Squared, Voice in the darkness, Signs and potents, etc) do have more of it than any B5 that followed.


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