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-   -   EpDis: Grail (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=7237)

Alexa April 25th 09 03:11

Re: EpDis: Grail
 
Thanks Jan!

Estelyn May 19th 10 21:12

Re: EpDis: Grail
 
This is one of the very few episodes in which the basic plotline doesn't convince me. I'm sorry, but the Holy Grail has been done so much that I really can't take searching for it in space seriously. (The last truly original treatment of the Grail was by Monty Python...)

Still, there are some good moments in this average (for B5) show. The idea of faking Kosh to hide the feeder is not bad - that encounter suit is an excellent hiding place for someone/thing that doesn't want to be seen. Jinxo brings a bit of interesting past to the foreground with his work on all Babylon stations. And Deuce as crime boss is the kind of character that you could expect in Down Below - again, not something you'd see in Star Trek!

My favourite bits are the two closing lines - Jinxo, firmly yet gently telling Garibaldi "My name is Thomas." is one. What's in a name? In this case, the nickname reflected the negative superstition, and by leaving it behind, he began a new life.

The other is of course Ivanova's wonderful "Boom!" line at the very end - classic Ivanovism! I love it.

Lennier's Tears September 26th 15 03:12

Re: EpDis: Grail
 
I like "Grail" alright. It's not the most stellar B5 episode there ever was, but it does have that charming B5 feel to it. At least, I thought so.

I do agree with others who said that something is a little off about the performance of actor who plays Jinxo. I don't really like to say stuff like that in a public forum because we're discussing real people, but .. it IS true. I don't think he's a horrible actor or anything. Just .. a little off. Especially the part where Gajic suggests to him that he should consider himself lucky. The reaction doesn't feel all that believable to me. But then, you have some very recognizable actors in this as well, and they're great.

The one thing where I disagree with apparently everyone here is that I didn't think the "Londo and Vir are scared of the Feeder" scenes were all that funny. I thought it was a bit silly, especially the bit where Garibaldi scares them with false information at the end. Ehh.

Re: the "two castes of Minbari" thing. I think I joined in this discussion on a different thread but I can't quite remember now ... In either case, this very episode has at least two scenes that have what appears to be a Worker Caste Minbari in the background (see below). I know there are other instances of Worker Caste Minbari appearing on screen before we learn that the Minbari actually have three castes. Definitely interesting.

Little things:
  • Jackets! It's like the woolly hats all over again. Is it cold in Down Below? Is it cold in all common areas? I am suddenly very curious about temperatures in various areas of Babylon 5. Jinxo's ill-fitting jacket is rather unflattering, but I suppose that fits the character. Deuce and his cronies on the other hand have cool leather jackets! We see all characters here wearing jackets or robes inside as well.
  • The justice system is super fast. I like that that's consistently true throughout the series.
  • I kinda feel like the main characters abandon their meals rather frequently, certainly for people who have to pay for stuff.
  • I was going to comment on the "300 cycles" thing but I read the Lurker's Guide page for this episode in preparation for this post and I see it was explained as "something we were going to try but then abandoned". Well, that explains that, then.

Worker Caste Minbari in background:
http://www.lotje.be/fanstuff/grail1.jpg

http://www.lotje.be/fanstuff/grail2.jpg

Mororless September 26th 15 04:24

Re: EpDis: Grail
 
No mention of William Sanderson playing Deuce so far, I thought he was by some distance the best gangster B5 ever had and wish he'd been used again.

Lennier's Tears September 26th 15 05:12

Re: EpDis: Grail
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mororless (Post 451977)
No mention of William Sanderson playing Deuce so far, I thought he was by some distance the best gangster B5 ever had and wish he'd been used again.

Heh. I was including him in "very recognizable actors" :p I agree on him being the best gangster, but then I guess he didn't have much competition :p

Springer September 26th 15 09:54

Re: EpDis: Grail
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennier's Tears (Post 451976)
I do agree with others who said that something is a little off about the performance of actor who plays Jinxo. I don't really like to say stuff like that in a public forum because we're discussing real people, but .. it IS true. I don't think he's a horrible actor or anything. Just .. a little off. Especially the part where Gajic suggests to him that he should consider himself lucky. The reaction doesn't feel all that believable to me. But then, you have some very recognizable actors in this as well, and they're great.

According to Christy Marx, it was the actor's first ever TV role, so considering that I don't think he did all that badly he brought a kind of frantic earnestness to the character. Apparently David Warner coached him a lot on set as Richard Compton was in too much of a huff after being fired from the series to be bothered directing the actors. All things considered, I think the episode turned out fairly well, if a little lightweight.

Springer September 26th 15 09:58

Re: EpDis: Grail
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mororless (Post 451977)
No mention of William Sanderson playing Deuce so far, I thought he was by some distance the best gangster B5 ever had and wish he'd been used again.

He was used again though, in Thirdspace! :-) Although it was kind of by accident he was cast in Thirdspace.

And agree he was excellent - though he normally is excellent in whatever he appears in.

Mororless September 26th 15 18:04

Re: EpDis: Grail
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennier's Tears (Post 451978)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mororless (Post 451977)
No mention of William Sanderson playing Deuce so far, I thought he was by some distance the best gangster B5 ever had and wish he'd been used again.

Heh. I was including him in "very recognizable actors" :p I agree on him being the best gangster, but then I guess he didn't have much competition :p

To be fair I think Richard Moll as Max in Hunter, Prey did a pretty good job bringing some amusing character to the role but Sanderson was the only gangster who really had much threat and gravity to his performance.

Was there ever any plan to have gangsters play a significant role in B5?

Jan September 27th 15 18:15

Re: EpDis: Grail
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mororless (Post 451981)
Was there ever any plan to have gangsters play a significant role in B5?

Not gangsters, per se, but n'grath (proper spelling-with no caps, per JMS) was supposed to be a kind of Boss downbelow. After he wasn't in charge any longer nobody ever truly took his place I don't think.

Dorvo November 4th 15 01:06

Re: EpDis: Grail
 
I like this episode, not least because David Warner could read the phone book and I'd stand there with my mouth open, amazed. Such is the power of good acting (especially good English acting, and there's arguably none better in the English speaking world). I have to admit too that I'm a sucker for King Arthur references: I teach the stories all the time, from Malory to T.H. White, and one inimitable aspect they have is the power to morph and shift to remain relevant to very varied historical periods and cultures. It's a reason why "Late Delivery from Avalon" is also one of my favorites. And it does fit well with the B5 story line. The idea of the "true seeker"--the lonely individual who pursues his own agenda, regardless of party line, and ends up triumphing as a result--is so important not just to B5 but to JMS's general, romantic, and very out of fashion idea of the importance of the individual to history, that I can't resist it. Figures. I'm a sucker for Churchill for very much the same reasons, and JMS refers to him later in the series, too.


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