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-   -   EpDis: TKO (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=7195)

Alexa April 25th 09 00:29

Re: EpDis: TKO
 
I really liked the Ivanova part, esp seeing her call the Rabbi 'uncle'. It brought a real softness and humanity to her character, which, up until this point, had been reserved and hard,esp in the first few eps. I didn`t think she did the sobbing very effectively though when she broke down crying. It just didn`t ring true for me, but the other scenes were, I thought, very well done.

The other plot line, well, I hated it. I`m not a sports fan, and this just seemed too much like a rehash of all the bad sports movies I had tried to sit through with my ex. The "stroke off" line was funny, even though it was not intended to be. It was just so bad, I had to laugh.

GKarsEye April 25th 09 13:42

Re: EpDis: TKO
 
Recoil once wrote a really great post defending the A story of this episode while the rest of us were shitting all over it and I've since come around to his point of view.
Also I've since come to love fighting and sports movies and stories actually and I watch Rocky like very other month so I guess I'm biased now, but I like this episode.

The actor that played the alien that acted as coach in this episode comes back in season 3 as the Nightwatch creep that kidnaps Delenn and a Minbari captain in season 3.

Jade Jaguar April 26th 09 05:22

Re: EpDis: TKO
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexa (Post 341179)
The other plot line, well, I hated it. I`m not a sports fan, and this just seemed too much like a rehash of all the bad sports movies I had tried to sit through with my ex. The "stroke off" line was funny, even though it was not intended to be. It was just so bad, I had to laugh.

I'm not at all a sports fan, but I have defended the A story several times. It is about racism. Walker-Smith, black human, calls the aliens "snake heads," a racist epithet. The aliens of the Mutai Doh are also racist, which is why they won't let humans participate. Eventually, they learn to see each other as equals. That's the simple description, 'cause I'm too lazy to search for the better ones I've written... :D

Galahad May 4th 09 18:52

Re: EpDis: TKO
 
Yes it's also quite interesting that you have two different types of racism at play.

Estelyn May 19th 10 19:39

Re: EpDis: TKO
 
I had to look up "TKO" because I was unfamiliar with that combination of letters. Does it mean "technical knockout" in this context?

I could have missed the fight parts of this episode without even a bit of regret. It did not interest me and it added nothing to the B5 universe, as far as I'm concerned. Granted, I am one of those people (we do exist!) who has never had the least desire to see a Rocky movie or anything similar.

The Ivanova part of the plot did bring closure to her loss and an opportunity to show emotion differently than normal for her. I liked the aspect of Sinclair's friendship that comes to the foreground. Whether that is enough to get me to watch this episode repeatedly is dubious though.

KoshFan May 19th 10 20:21

Re: EpDis: TKO
 
Yes, that's the correct acronym.

There's some worthwhile stuff in the main plotline -- especially Smith's final warning to Garibaldi -- but you definitely have to dig for it. The Ivanova plotline works a lot better.

Lennier's Tears September 21st 15 12:39

Re: EpDis: TKO
 
Ehh, TKO. I have never gone so far as to skip it, and I likely won't, just because I like to watch things in the proper order, but if I HAD to make a list of skippable episodes, I'm thinking this one would be at the top of the list. I don't find the A plot interesting enough to be an A plot. If it were a B plot alongside a very exciting A plot I might not have minded. Maybe. I'm just not that into boxing stories, or "disgraced fighter redeems himself" or whatever it is.

I can sort of appreciate some of the things they were trying to do here, like the lingo. Someone put a fair bit of effort into creating this slang that makes conversation between Garibaldi and Walker Smith almost difficult to understand. I can also kind of appreciate the general sentiment they were going for with the whole "humans need to butt out of this because they're butting into everything and we don't like it", but that is then sort of ruined by having a young Centauri enthusiastically nodding along to some unidentified alien who is expressing this sentiment. A Centauri! Because they're not busy trying to conquer everything in the known universe.

I'm also not really buying the sudden transformation of Walker Smith from some guy who casually throws out racial slurs to guy who respects alien traditions, but ehh, I guess I can deal.

As for the Ivanova plot .. it's alright. It makes me uncomfortable to watch everyone (ok, just the rabbi and Sinclair, but it feels like EVERYONE) butting into her life like that. I understand that they're doing it because they care about her and they can tell she's suppressing some things and she'd feel better if she expressed her grief but ... uncomfortable! I'd be way more pissed than she was if someone from my past came into my (very far from home) workplace and went behind my back to discuss my private life with my boss. That's not to say I think that's a bad storyline. It's exactly the kind of thing people do :p

I like the story Ivanova tells about going to the reading with her father. It's such a small thing, but it's great background stuff.

Also, I agree with Estelyn that Sinclair is great in this. He's showing so much compassion and caring with pretty much no words.

Mororless October 8th 15 08:25

Re: EpDis: TKO
 
One thing that did always stand out for me relative to Trek at the time was how much better the physical fighting was on B5. Trek normally descending into the infamous Starfleet "double axehandle" that KOed Klingons instantly where as in B5 we get some pretty well choreographed scenes with some decent skill on display.

I spose it was helped by having a lot of the fighting on B5 being done by minor characters, a lot of whome I'd imagine were stunt men first rather than actors.

Dorvo November 4th 15 00:34

Re: EpDis: TKO
 
Dunno why, but I'm strangely fond of this episode, I think because it's particularly well acted by the guest stars. I really like the boxer (don't have the name at my fingertips) and the wonderful actor who plays rabbi Koslov (he recently passed away) is fantastic. Other things I like: the foreshadowing (Garibaldi, watch your back), and the general idea that humans are often seen by the other aliens as aggressive, pushy and culturally insensitive (the same charges, tellingly, that the human xenophobes in the series seem to level at aliens). It builds well on Ivanova's "emotionally stoppered" character, which gets so much development later in the series. So this one is a win for me, if not in my top picks.

Springer November 4th 15 13:28

Re: EpDis: TKO
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorvo (Post 452132)
Dunno why, but I'm strangely fond of this episode, I think because it's particularly well acted by the guest stars. I really like the boxer (don't have the name at my fingertips) and the wonderful actor who plays rabbi Koslov (he recently passed away) is fantastic.

Sadly the actor that played Walker Smith, Greg McKinney, also passed away in 1998.


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