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-   -   EpDis: Signs And Portents (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=7156)

Sindatur October 25th 12 19:47

Re: EpDis: Signs And Portents
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Psi Cop (Post 402230)
I don't get the title of the is poll. I'm assuming it means rating the episode. What does it mean by "favorite recurring character?" :confused:

Yea, as Joe said, when the Site got a Software update, the titles of the polls got scrambled, but, if I remember correctly, the votes in the Polls do relate to the Episode title of thread. Kinda strange just the poll titles got scrambled, and not the contents of the Poll, but, as you can see, Excellent, Good etc, do not work for a "Favorite Character" poll, so, it's definitely believable the Poll results are accurate, even though the Poll title is not

Some Mod ought to try and fix that one day <Devilish Grin>

Lennier's Tears September 20th 15 23:19

Re: EpDis: Signs And Portents
 
"The Shadows have come for Lord Kiro. The Shadows have come for us all!"

Ah, Signs and Portents, the heart and soul of Season 1. It's entirely fitting that this episode and the season have the same name. What a great episode! First appearance of a Shadow ship, and of Mr. Morden. Gloomy visions of the future from Lady Ladira. Sinclair is finding out more about his experience at the Battle of the Line, and the Minbari's interest in him ... It's great stuff all around.

Little things noted during this viewing:
  • Why does Morden's ID work? I think I have commented on this in a later thread (presumably in the thread for "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum"), and I guess the question belongs there more than it does here because we don't yet know anything about Morden in this episode ...
  • Delenn has a Shadow detector on her forehead? What IS that?
  • That's a pretty fantastic mullet on Corwin, there :)

Kraig September 21st 15 21:25

Re: EpDis: Signs And Portents
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennier's Tears (Post 451968)
The Shadows have come for Lord Kiro. The Shadows have come for us all!"



Little things noted during this viewing:
  • Why does Morden's ID work? I think I have commented on this in a later thread (presumably in the thread for "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum"), and I guess the question belongs there more than it does here because we don't yet know anything about Morden in this episode ...

It could have been purchased, or more likely one of Clarke's people on B5 security got him the ID.

Lennier's Tears September 22nd 15 01:55

Re: EpDis: Signs And Portents
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraig (Post 451970)

It could have been purchased, or more likely one of Clarke's people on B5 security got him the ID.

Yea, that seems like a reasonable enough explanation, but it does seem like he uses his own ID. The guy at security says "Hmm, this hasn't been updated in a while" or something like that. While the ID might be fake, he's certainly not using a fake identity, and his real identity is [SPOILERS for season 2] listed as "deceased" in Earth's database. Seems like a fake identity would have been more inconspicuous. Perhaps he was really attached to his real one :p

Mororless October 7th 15 07:23

Re: EpDis: Signs And Portents
 
If Morden is getting help from Clark and the Corps it could be possible that he's using his real ID but the system has been hacked somehow to make use it doesn't raise alerts.

Ultimately though he isn't found out due to any form of ID(card or even his name) but rather visually due to Garibaldi viewing Sheridan records.

The question might I spose be more shouldn't Morden and the Shadows have been wary on Sheridan finding him when he became B5 CO? could they somehow have wanted such a confrontation? maybe they were behind Sheridan being appointed CO believing having Ann could give them control over an earth force high ranker in a key role, control beyond Clark and the Corps.

Springer October 7th 15 14:07

Re: EpDis: Signs And Portents
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mororless (Post 452000)
The question might I spose be more shouldn't Morden and the Shadows have been wary on Sheridan finding him when he became B5 CO? could they somehow have wanted such a confrontation? maybe they were behind Sheridan being appointed CO believing having Ann could give them control over an earth force high ranker in a key role, control beyond Clark and the Corps.

I suspect they were arrogant enough to probably not care about Sheridan getting in the way and [SPOILERS for season 2] probably knew there was nothing Sheridan could pin on Morden - in the end Sheridan did have to let him go, after all. If there had been a real problem then Morden always had his Shadows with him, or Clark would have found out through the Night Watch and arranged for Morden to be released. Morden did threaten Sheridan saying it would be the end of his career if he kept holding him illegally, and the Shadows didn't know how much Kosh and Delenn knew about them returning. So at the worst Sheridan finding him would have been an inconvenience to them, nothing more.

Lennier's Tears October 8th 15 01:01

Re: EpDis: Signs And Portents
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mororless (Post 452000)
maybe they were behind Sheridan being appointed CO believing having Ann could give them control over an earth force high ranker in a key role, control beyond Clark and the Corps.

This is an intriguing theory, but I don't believe the Shadows knew anything about either John or Anna Sheridan at this point. [SPOILERS for Season 3]. In "Z'ha'Dum" we learn that Anna had been put into a Shadow ship after the crew of the Icarus found the Shadows on Z'ha'dum. When the Shadows found out they had Sheridan's wife, they pulled her out and .. I dunno "revived" her to send her to Babylon 5 in order to convince Sheridan of the righteousness of their cause. Or something along those lines :p

Mororless October 8th 15 08:09

Re: EpDis: Signs And Portents
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennier's Tears (Post 452005)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mororless (Post 452000)
maybe they were behind Sheridan being appointed CO believing having Ann could give them control over an earth force high ranker in a key role, control beyond Clark and the Corps.

This is an intriguing theory, but I don't believe the Shadows knew anything about either John or Anna Sheridan at this point. [SPOILERS for Season 3]. In "Z'ha'Dum" we learn that Anna had been put into a Shadow ship after the crew of the Icarus found the Shadows on Z'ha'dum. When the Shadows found out they had Sheridan's wife, they pulled her out and .. I dunno "revived" her to send her to Babylon 5 in order to convince Sheridan of the righteousness of their cause. Or something along those lines :p

That does tend to suggest it was later after Sheridan had become a threat although I don't remember anything being stated as to exactly when it happened.

We do on the other hand get the vision from Kosh as early as mid season two during All Alone In The Night though that tells Sheridan that The Man Inbetween/Justin is looking for him before he's confronted Morden.

Jan October 8th 15 17:13

Re: EpDis: Signs And Portents
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mororless (Post 452007)
That does tend to suggest it was later after Sheridan had become a threat although I don't remember anything being stated as to exactly when it happened.

All we've got is what Justin said to Sheridan:

Quote:

We pulled
her out as soon as we found out who
she was...who you were...but once
you've been inside one of those
ships for a while, you're never
quite whole again. But you do what
you're told. And so will you.
Quote:

We do on the other hand get the vision from Kosh as early as mid season two during All Alone In The Night though that tells Sheridan that The Man Inbetween/Justin is looking for him before he's confronted Morden.
Quoting way too much from the B5 script books:

Quote:

Some have speculated that this refers to Justin, who meets Sheridan in
“Z’ha’dum” and refers to himself as “a middle man.” And I’ve since noted that
in one sense, yes, the description fits. That was one of the things I considered
when writing this scene, but not the only thing. Images and dreams have more
than one meaning. Other fans have decided that the man in-between is Sinclair,
or Kosh, or Morden, and those interpretations are as valid as anything else in
terms of what each viewer takes away from the scene. Art, I think, is what
happens in the distance between the observer and that which is observed.
Interpretation is half the job. So if any of those options are what people wish to
interpret, then for them that interpretation is valid.
But in terms of the author’s original intent…what I meant and what I was
thinking about when I wrote it…while there was the Justin aspect, which is the
easiest to explain in a quick internet note or on a convention platform…the truth
is that, knowing what was coming up in the story years down the road, for me the
man in-between…is Sheridan himself.
Again…look at the scene. He’s looking up at himself, both here and in
“Sleeping in Light.” Consider the following exchange between Lorien and
Sheridan in “Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?” (Emphases mine.)
LORIEN
If you did not hit bottom, then you are
still falling, and all of this is a dream.
(beat)
Unless…you're in-between.
SHERIDAN
Between what?
LORIEN
Between moments. When we are born, we
are allocated a finite number of
seconds. Each tick of the clock slices
off a piece of us. Tick, a possibility
for joy is gone; tock, a careless word
ends one path, opens another. Tick,
tock, tick, tock, always running out of
time. Yours is almost used up. You're
between seconds, lost in the infinite
possibilities between tick and tock;
tick, you're alive, tock…well, it was a
good life, but a short one.
And then, from later in the same episode:
SHERIDAN
The others need me --
LORIEN
They need what you can be when you are
no longer afraid. When you are no
longer looking for reasons to live, but
can simply be.
SHERIDAN
I can't.
LORIEN
Then I cannot help you, and you will
be caught forever in-between. You
must let go. Surrender yourself to
death. The death of flesh, the
death of fear. Step into the abyss
and let go.
At the risk of being trite…the Sheridan that he is one day going to become
is looking for him, waiting for him on the other side of his decisions.
Jan

Dorvo October 13th 15 01:14

Re: EpDis: Signs And Portents
 
One of the moments of Maximum Coolness in the entire series. It builds a wonderful sense of foreboding and menace, from start to finish. I also think that one of the really powerful features of season 1 is the "slow start"--how a gem like this is largely unhinted at for the first half of the season, dropped in, enjoyed, and then not recalled until the very end of the season. And then of course, the pace just gets faster and faster as the seasons advance, until finally the Shadow War and its aftermath pretty much takes over the series entirely. What's more, I don't think you can appreciate an episode like this properly without watching the previous, largely unrelated episodes--they build up backstory, foreshadowing, character development, all of which flower at a moment like this (example: the clear friendship between Garibaldi and Sinclair which has its "payoff" here--without earlier episodes, that wouldn't make sense). All stories with really powerful "payoff" moments seem to do this--Frodo unexpectedly destroying the Ring with Gollum's unintended help, Odysseus finally unmasking himself to the suitors, Hector's death at Achilles' hands. Without the hundreds of pages of prior buildup, the payoff loses its effect.

And it introduces Morden, one of the very best villains in all of sci fi. Never has evil been smoother or more charismatic.

Lennier's Tears October 13th 15 02:17

Re: EpDis: Signs And Portents
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorvo (Post 452031)
What's more, I don't think you can appreciate an episode like this properly without watching the previous, largely unrelated episodes--they build up backstory, foreshadowing, character development, all of which flower at a moment like this (example: the clear friendship between Garibaldi and Sinclair which has its "payoff" here--without earlier episodes, that wouldn't make sense). All stories with really powerful "payoff" moments seem to do this--Frodo unexpectedly destroying the Ring with Gollum's unintended help, Odysseus finally unmasking himself to the suitors, Hector's death at Achilles' hands. Without the hundreds of pages of prior buildup, the payoff loses its effect.

I think that's both true and well-put. Still, I feel Signs and Portents is really more of a "build" episode than a "reveal" episode (like, say, The Fall of Night, or War Without End). Then again, there's no reason an episode can't be a little bit of both :)


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