B5TV.COM

B5TV.COM (http://www.b5tv.com/index.php)
-   B5.world (http://www.b5tv.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
-   -   EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=6799)

vacantlook October 26th 04 08:14

EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
And here we have the next episode, The Parliament Of Dreams.

Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for The Parliament Of Dreams
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for The Parliament Of Dreams

vacantlook October 26th 04 08:24

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
I personally really really love "The Parliament Of Dreams". The multitude of various religious demonstrations helps to flesh out several of the alien races, we have the fun of a G'Kar centric plot, and we get introduced to the wonderous Na'Toth!

The various alien religious demonstrations was fun. We get more of the calm, monkishness of the Minbari religious experience. I love the minor interaction of G'Kar in the background during the shot of Delenn speaking right after the red fruit is passed out but not yet consumed: G'Kar quietly swaps fruit with Ivanova sitting next to him. :lol: The Centauri festival was great too: "Everybody's cute, everybody's cute; but in purple, I'm stunning!" and "Do you know what the last Xon said? Argh!" :lol: And then the poiniency of Sinclair's introduction to the long line of various religious persons from Earth culture.

Second, we have the joy of seeing more of G'Kar beyond the brooding angry revolutionary. I think a lot of G'Kar in this episode is hillarious: "This is Ambassador G'Kar's quarters. This is Ambassador G'Kar's table. This is Ambassador G'Kar's dinner. What part of this progression eludes you?" "By this time, I'm already dead.""Good riddance." :lol:

And then the wonderful introduction of Na'Toth after the suspicious death of Ko'Dath in an airlock malfuction. :lol: I loved Na'Toth and G'Kar's repetition of the "You will known pain, You will know fear, And then you will die, Have a pleasant flight!" That whole conversation with Tu'Pari is great. I love Brown's delivery of Na'Toth's line: "Most unfortunate!"

Ultimately, I think this episode is great. :)

Shaal Mayan October 26th 04 08:42

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
This one is excellant so it gets an A and rightly done .The Centauri festival of life was funny .But what stark contrast to the Minbari religious beliefs so somber .The one thing missing was Narn beliefs.

darth_librarian October 26th 04 09:02

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
A 'B'. Like a lot of the early stuff, it works well on repeat viewings, there being a lot of foreshadowing of later seasons...
Good characterisation, enjoyed the humor, but the G'kar plot was possibly a little contrived.
One thing I will say about early episodes was that the musi, while good was yet to find its real hook. Sometimes it seems a bit intursive, but we were spoilt later on.

KoshFan October 26th 04 09:30

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
This is one of my early favorite episodes, and one I've used to hook new fans.

I haven't seen the introduction of Catharine Sakai mentioned. Not as important as it might otherwise have been due to Sinclair's departure, but she was a fine character in the three episodes we saw her in.

Perhaps one of my favorite lines has also been forgotten:

"He has become one with his inner spirit!"
"He passed out!"
"That too."

And the assassin's glasses....

Shaal Mayan October 26th 04 10:09

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
That's the only down side to an otherwise great ep that I didn;t put in my post the character of catherine Sakai I am glad we only saw her in 3 episodes I never warmed up to her .But's it's still excellant .

RMcD October 26th 04 10:18

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
I enjoy everything about this episode except the Narn A-plot, which I find is overplayed, laboured, and cartoony. Otherwise it does a great job of fleshing out each of the major B5 races (except the Vorlons - Kosh's scene was removed and edited into The War Prayer). It also features one of the funniest scenes in season 1 (the Centauri banquet) and one of my favourite scenes in the whole series (at the very end). At the same time it introduces important characters like Lennier, Na'Toth, and Catherine Sakai.

I find it hard to rate. Like many installments of B5, it's a bit like watching three different episodes intercut; but in this case at least two of them are stunning.

vacantlook October 26th 04 10:38

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
I had forgotten about Sakai being introduced this episode when I commented on the ep above. Personally, I really like Sakai and felt sad that with Sinclair leaving at the end of season one (with the notable reapparances) that it also brought on the departure of Sakai. I especially enjoyed her interactions with G'Kar in "Mind War" and looked forward to more such intereactions with him and other characters for her. I was pleasantly surprised to see her turn up again in the novel "To Dream In The City Of Sorrows".

RW7427 October 26th 04 13:17

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
I love the "But in purple, I am stunning!" line. I like to use it about myself from time to time. :D

And I love what G'Kar and Na'Toth do to Tu'pari and the stunned looks on his face at the end. :lol:

hypatia October 26th 04 13:28

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
The G'Kar subplot was probably a bit overdone, but this was still early in the series, his entire character was overdone back then.

I did like the switching of the fruit that you can "just" see in the background. Wasn't that his doing, not in the script?

The end is perfect. I remember thinking the first time I saw this episode "how will they pull this off?". It really was done in the best way possible. Remind me, wasn't the atheist introduced first? :cool:

IMHO the series improved by leaps and bounds, for the most part, with the episodes made around here.

vacantlook October 26th 04 13:43

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Quote:

I did like the switching of the fruit that you can "just" see in the background. Wasn't that his doing, not in the script?

Yeah, it sounds like it something that would be done sort of ad lib like that.

Granite October 26th 04 20:10

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
I love this episode simply for the end -

when the ambassadors are getting introduced to earth's dominate religion - they say "where's the chanting" "I don't hear any drums".

I thought showing members of every single earth religion was great. It really showed that "humans build communities". I noted to that the first inroduction was to an atheist. Is the choice a reflection of JMS beliefs or just the need to begin with the first letter of the alphabet?

hypatia October 26th 04 22:05

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
I don't think he went in alphabetical order. So no, possibly he was thinking mathematically.

You must start with nothing, after all. ;)

From nothing you can build anything.

fisheggs October 26th 04 22:52

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Quote:

I don't think he went in alphabetical order. So no, possibly he was thinking mathematically.

You must start with nothing, after all. ;)

From nothing you can build anything.

Yep, you're a math teacher all right!! :D

Or an Iraqi terorist :o Mr Asscroft!!! Help , she' trying to force Science on us!!!! :o

phoenixrising October 26th 04 23:01

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
I agree the plot with G'Kar borders on being overdone to the point of slapstick, I gave this ep a B. The display of the various religions, the introduction of so many characters (e.g. Lennier, Na'Toth, Catherine Sakai) all make this a must see ep.

My favorite line is after Na'Toth beats the crap of G'Kar to free him.

Na'Toth: 'I had to hit them (the pain givers) as hard as possible, as often as possible and still make it appear as though I were beating you into another incarnation.'
G'Kar: 'And you didn't enjoy it in the least?'
Na'Toth: 'I didn't say that.'

hypatia October 26th 04 23:59

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Quote:


Yep, you're a math teacher all right!! :D

Or an Iraqi terorist :o Mr Asscroft!!! Help , she' trying to force Science on us!!!! :o

Never confuse mathematics with science. :devil: ;)

PhoenixRising:
Quote:

agree the plot with G'Kar borders on being overdone to the point of slapstick, I gave this ep a B. The display of the various religions, the introduction of so many characters (e.g. Lennier, Na'Toth, Catherine Sakai) all make this a must see ep.

Yea, but I must confess, a slapstick that I liked.

I suppose both Londo and G'Kar had to go through a kind of "clown" stage before the real character development could take off.

Quote:

My favorite line is after Na'Toth beats the crap of G'Kar to free him.

Na'Toth: 'I had to hit them (the pain givers) as hard as possible, as often as possible and still make it appear as though I were beating you into another incarnation.'
G'Kar: 'And you didn't enjoy it in the least?'
Na'Toth: 'I didn't say that.'

The evil, Cat-bert in me gets WAAAAAAAAAY too much pleasure out of that line. :devil:

aajay October 27th 04 11:44

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
The best season 1 episode so far. The Centauri banquet was great!
Loved seeing a Narn wear glasses. :D
NaToth was some tuff cookie (a Narn Emma Peele). And the very sensual Mimbari ritual.
Great, Great episode.

vacantlook October 27th 04 12:24

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Quote:

Mimbari

MiNbari

Stanley October 27th 04 15:08

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
I give it a B. It's one of my favorite episodes from season one, mainly because of the G'Kar plot. G'Kar screaming in terror at a flower -- hilarious.

Lousy_Dodgers August 21st 07 05:47

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
I was rewatching this tonight and I finally noticed G'Kar switching the fruit...too funny. I like the way that JMS puts an episode like this early in the series to offset the view of G'Kar as a quasi villain that comes across in other parts of season 1.

hypatia August 21st 07 14:18

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
I've wondered if that scene was actually staged, or if it was a moment that Andreas might have been ad-libbing. ?

Skander August 21st 07 15:59

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Excellent, excellent episode. At various times throughout, we've introduced friends of ours to Babylon 5--usually starting at Episode 1 (instead of the Pilot). We affectionately referred to this as "passing along the needle". Generally it was after this episode that they were pretty much hooked for life and for good reason.

I think humor is done hear as well as any episode in the entire series. The Centauri Banquet, G'Kar's buffoonish form of anger and mistrust ("...what part of this progression escapes you" had me laughing out loud on first watch), and Na-Toth/G'Kar interplay. I was happy to see Na'Toth replace Attache Ko'Dath and wasn't happy when Mary Kay Adams replaced Caitlin Brown. Also this episode is quite important to the arc as it introduces important characters, establishes an important reference point for certain characters, and foretells changes and relationships (Delenn/Cmmdr of B5) in the future. The line delivered to Sakai by G'Kar "No one here is exactly who he appears" reverberates throughout the series. TPoD is definitely a Top 5 Season 1 Episode and a personal favorite.

vacantlook August 21st 07 19:38

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skander (Post 306786)
...The line delivered to Sakai by G'Kar "No one here is exactly who he appears" reverberates throughout the series....

I'm not sure if you're just including this here or if you think that that line was in this episode. G'Kar says that to Sakai in "Mind War".

Skander August 21st 07 20:12

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Oops....my mistake vacantlook, you're right, G'Kar did say that to Sakai at the end of the next episode, "Mind War". The end of this one was Sinclair showing everyone the dominant Earth religion. Got mixed up.

vacantlook August 21st 07 20:36

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skander (Post 306801)
Oops....my mistake vacantlook, you're right, G'Kar did say that to Sakai at the end of the next episode, "Mind War". The end of this one was Sinclair showing everyone the dominant Earth religion. Got mixed up.

They're both great scenes, if you ask me. :beer:

crazyhorse August 22nd 07 20:17

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Was the "No one here is exactly who he appears" quote not in the middle of Mind War when G'Kar was warning against the survey?

I think in these episodes we see the beginning of the change in G'Kar from being the war mongering,devious little shithead into a more complex character.I did find it amusing how he was a scardey pants in Parliament yet concerned in Mind War.

These early episodes also got me hooked but take your pick from the season and I'll say them all :beer:

hypatia August 23rd 07 03:26

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
[QUOTE=crazyhorse;306873]I think in these episodes we see the beginning of the change in G'Kar from being the war mongering,devious little shithead into a more complex character.I did find it amusing how he was a scardey pants in Parliament yet concerned in Mind War.
QUOTE]

I don't get you here. You can be concerned for someone (especially if you think saving her might gain you political favor with the highest officer on B5) and still be afraid of an assasin who is from a guild that takes its executions very seriously.

He's concerend for his life, knowing his people's best assasins are after him. Saving the Captain's girlfriend (especially since he didn't go himself, he requested other narns to go out and pick her up) doesn't take courage, in particular. It take political savvy, as I see it.

Anyway, yes, I enjoyed the episode but I know like always it isn't everyone's favorites.

Lousy_Dodgers August 23rd 07 05:09

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Quote:

He's concerend for his life, knowing his people's best assasins are after him. Saving the Captain's girlfriend (especially since he didn't go himself, he requested other narns to go out and pick her up) doesn't take courage, in particular. It take political savvy, as I see it.

I agree, all he had to do to save Sakai was call in an order.

I do not really believe that we are witnessing much of a change in G'Kar in the middle of season 1. If anything, the episodes show a character with some depth(in that G'Kar has better things to do than sitting around and plotting against the EA all day) even if he remains a largely self-interested individual at this point in the series.

KoshFan August 23rd 07 14:52

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
I didn't see "Mind War" until after I'd seen most of the rest of the series, oddly, and the thing that leaped out at me was that he was always been quite eloquent when he wanted to be. His speech at the end of the episode was brief, powerful, moving... and shows a side of him that we have not seen before. Unless you watch the series out of order.

So on the whole he's not changing, but we're seeing the beginnings of something that later became much more important to him and in him.

Jade Jaguar August 25th 07 20:21

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lousy_Dodgers (Post 306909)
G'Kar... he remains a largely self-interested individual at this point in the series.

I don't agree with that at all. G'Kar's interest is not self interest, but the interest of all his people, obtaining retribution against the Centauri for their long and brutal occupation of Narn, which was destructive of their culture, and doubtless involved the deaths of tens of thousands, perhaps even millions.

I never saw G'Kar as bad, or evil, but only as someone who was demanding what he considered to be justice for his people. Most humans would certainly feel as he did, under such circumstances. It always puzzled me that he did not get more sympathy from Earth people, prior to the second Centauri invasion. Of course G'Kar did transcend such thoughts eventually, but how many humans would?

Crusader August 25th 07 23:20

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade Jaguar (Post 307071)
I never saw G'Kar as bad, or evil, but only as someone who was demanding what he considered to be justice for his people.

I kinda disagree, while we dont know it yet, i feel it is revenge for his father rather than his people. G'Kars motives are entirely selfish at this point in the series. The major changes the character goes through are certainly welcome ones. Especially with the continuing banter between G'kar and Mollari

Jade Jaguar August 25th 07 23:58

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crusader (Post 307082)
...while we dont know it yet, i feel it is revenge for his father rather than his people. G'Kars motives are entirely selfish at this point in the series.

Anyone in his situation would have many reasons, and some are bound to be personal. But, that doesn't mean he doesn't have larger reasons that go beyond the personal. His anger at the Centauri is understandable, even justifiable, at many levels.

I think most people are just unable to put themselves in his shoes, especially early on. G'Kar is angry, and Londo is a buffoon. Most people find a buffoon more agreeable, and therefore tend to have less sympathy for the angry one, not having been through what he has been through. How many viewers saw the Centauri as a bloody, brutal, genocidal, despotic bunch from the start? That is what G'Kar knew them to be. And, even if viewers did realize that on some level, they certainly didn't live with it as an open wound, as G'Kar did. So, simply put, Londo was more likeable, even though G'Kar's anger was righteous, so G'Kar was viewed as a bad guy by most people, from the start.

maneth August 29th 07 10:14

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
I viewed both G'Kar and Londo as quite conflicted from the start. I certainly didn't prefer Londo. Of course, further developments in the show bear that out. I liked this episode a lot, especially the end. I like the different aliens, but it's very difficult to make a culture heterogenous enough within itself. Later we find that there are several Narn prophets (G'Quan, later G'Kar too is viewed as such) and obviously there are quite important differences between the Minbari castes. However, I don't think humans are really unique in the diversity, it's just a plot device to avoid complicating things too much.

Why is the poll for Born to the Purple?

vacantlook August 29th 07 10:33

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maneth (Post 307421)
Why is the poll for Born to the Purple?

See here.

maneth August 30th 07 15:22

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Oh, okay. Seems odd they'd switch over to other threads, though.

KoshFan August 31st 07 16:30

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade Jaguar (Post 307071)
I never saw G'Kar as bad, or evil, but only as someone who was demanding what he considered to be justice for his people. Most humans would certainly feel as he did, under such circumstances. It always puzzled me that he did not get more sympathy from Earth people, prior to the second Centauri invasion. Of course G'Kar did transcend such thoughts eventually, but how many humans would?

It's very easy to take a calm, cool approach and say, "You shouldn't pursue justice in this fashion, yadda yadda yadda," when they aren't involved.

Cell May 29th 08 05:06

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Another review, enjoy, hate, laugh, cry, it's all good. :)

http://worldsoforos.com/secondviews/...-105/#more-339

Urban Roy April 2nd 09 13:40

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
I liked a number of aspects of this episode (and agree with a lot of what's been said in other replies to this thread). The different religions help the B5 Universe to feel fully fleshed out which is important (although the line up of people from different Earth religions at the end wasn't my cup of tea). I also found myself warming to G'Kar. I think it is the way that he is singing as he makes his dinner at the start.

I was interested to see the use of torture in the episode. While it has been used in quite a lot of sci-fi since (the really quite unpleasant scene from Firefly springs to mind), I'm not sure that space was the kind of place where bad stuff like that was meant to happen anymore.

Liked the introduction of a love interest for Sinclair, much more believable that the red-head from the pilot (and much better acting).

Finally nice to see that all of the ambassador (except Kosh) now have a sidekick. For some reason I always enjoy the use of an unknowledgeable sidekick as a tool to give the viewer necessary background...

OK that's all from me for now. I will try to pop over later with my thoughts on a few more episodes.

vacantlook April 3rd 09 00:36

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Roy (Post 339446)
...(although the line up of people from different Earth religions at the end wasn't my cup of tea).

Can you expand on why you disliked that part?

GKarsEye April 4th 09 15:01

Re: EpDis: The Parliament Of Dreams
 
Man I could barely get through the Sinclair/Sakai scenes while watching this a few days ago. That dialogue... like something from Grey's Anatomy or one of those chick shows, but slightly more self-consciously clever. Who talks like that? No wonder their relationship didn't work- both people are unbearable in personal situations. I couldn't imagine actually having fun with either of those people.

Just thought I'd add a little nitpick to what is otherwise a favorite episode.


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:14.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2008 B5TV.COM