B5TV.COM

B5TV.COM (http://www.b5tv.com/index.php)
-   B5.world (http://www.b5tv.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
-   -   EpDis: Born To The Purple (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=6713)

vacantlook October 12th 04 23:55

EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
Continuing along, we have Born To The Purple.

Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for Born To The Purple
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for Born To The Purple

vacantlook October 13th 04 00:13

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
I really love "Born To The Purple." It's a full-on character story; we get hit twice by Londo and by Ivanova.

I love seeing Londo's depth in this ep. With his hair for some reason easily able to get viewers to dismiss him, and his drunken bafoonery potentially limiting his character, this episode helps being so early in the viewing order to boldy announce that Londo is a character of depth.

Seeing his love for Adira is wistful and tragic in a way. "Appearances be damned!" he tells her. If only over the course of the show he could have adhered to that personal philosophy more. We see more of Londo's opinion of himself: that he's washed-up, that he is worrisome of the state his society is in, and that he wishes for things to be different. It is all this that makes him the prey of others later in the series.

And then we have Ivanova secretly getting in contact with her father back on Earth, and eventually watching him die in their final conversation. Her last remaining immediate family member is gone. Claudia does great and brings tremendous vulnerability to the character in this episode. And Garibaldi's reaction once he cracks the blocks during Ivanova's final conversation as he watches the conversation as well as his reaction of telling Ivanova he knows without actually saying it strengthen his character as well.

Adira's character was great, I thought, for being a guest character. A character that's a slave can easily turn into nothing but a huge stereotype, but Adira is kept from being such. I get the feeling when I watch this episode that while Adira is a slave and an erotic dancer, she has a considerable amount of dignity for herself yet simultaneously feels the scorn and contempt toward her from so much of the rest of her society. That she is able to gain her freedom in the end is heartwarming and doesn't feel cliche for a slave character.

Oh, and we get to meet the short-lived Miss Ko'Dath. :lol:

Markas October 13th 04 00:17

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
I rated it "good". I enjoyed the ep mostly for the backstory on Centauri politics. It was also nice to see Londo actually happy.

Shaal Mayan October 13th 04 08:13

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
I gave this one an excellant grade it was nice seeing Londo really fall in love and be happy and I loved Adira the fact she got her freedom at the end was touching.But knowing her final fate is sad.Ivanova's father dying in a hospitol after a long illness it seems was very touching for me as well as the character of susan ivanova.

KoshFan October 13th 04 11:04

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
My favorite part of this episode is the title, given that it foreshadows Londo's rise to being emperor.

RW7427 October 13th 04 17:28

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
This is an entertaining episode. It's not one of the best, but it's still good watching! :)

phoenixrising October 14th 04 20:27

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
I gave this one a B. It was nice seeing what a true romantic Londo is (and heartbreaking in retrospect). It was alos nice seeing how much Sinclair knows about his station, even the seedy parts.

Favorite line: 'And you can kiss my plump Centauri...ahhhh.'

Granite October 21st 04 22:55

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
Question on episode:

During Londo's final kiss with Adira, why does he leave his eyes open when he kisses her. Did Peter Jurasik not like the Actress or something?

vacantlook October 21st 04 23:03

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
You've never kissed someone with your eyes open just to be able to watch them kissing you with their eyes closed?

I have. :o

RW7427 October 22nd 04 10:39

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
I like the Londo and Adira scenes, but my question is this....

What would this Trakis fellow want from the Centauri? Why was he willing to damage the career of the Centauri Ambassador to Babylon 5? Did he have some personal grudge against the Centauri? Was his homeworld one of the worlds that the Centauri controlled? I never did figure that out.

Granite October 22nd 04 12:18

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
Quote:

You've never kissed someone with your eyes open just to be able to watch them kissing you with their eyes closed?

I have. :o

True - but his eyes were very widely open.

vacantlook October 22nd 04 20:29

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
Quote:

True - but his eyes were very widely open.

Looked like they were open no wider than normal to me.

iamsheridan October 25th 04 01:03

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
Quote:

Question on episode:

During Londo's final kiss with Adira, why does he leave his eyes open when he kisses her. Did Peter Jurasik not like the Actress or something?

That's simply how the Centauri kiss! :)

/IamS

RMcD October 26th 04 07:53

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
I like this episode.

As far as I can remember, it's the only one to feature a grey-eyed Narn, which suggests this is a very rare genetic mutation (unless, perhaps, the Shadows exterminated their kind in the days of G'Quon).

One thing that has long puzzled me:
When Londo and Sinclair go to the nightclub in disguise in search of Adira, how does Londo manage to get his hair to fit under that hood?

vacantlook October 26th 04 08:10

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
Quote:

When Londo and Sinclair go to the nightclub in disguise in search of Adira, how does Londo manage to get his hair to fit under that hood?

:lol:

I guess he just flattened his hair down some.

darth_librarian October 26th 04 09:02

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
All i can honestly remember is that Adira was mightily stacked.

hypatia October 26th 04 09:34

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
I remember this as the first episode of B5 (once I saw it in order from season 1 on) which really entertained me completely. I liked it a lot. :cool:

GKarsEye October 26th 04 13:38

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
Quote:

I like the Londo and Adira scenes, but my question is this....

What would this Trakis fellow want from the Centauri? Why was he willing to damage the career of the Centauri Ambassador to Babylon 5? Did he have some personal grudge against the Centauri? Was his homeworld one of the worlds that the Centauri controlled? I never did figure that out.

He wanted to sell it the information, probably the Narn. He says it in the show, I think to Adira. That's also why Londo' concern was for more than just his own ass, and why Sinclair helped him (as well as getting Londo to agree on that treaty)- the info could damage the entire Centauri Republic.

Adira was also Alotta Vagina in Austin Powers. She is a babe, even if bald.

vacantlook October 26th 04 13:45

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
Quote:

Alotta Vagina

Fagina actually. :D

B5obsessive November 22nd 04 15:32

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
Really good ep for Susan, by far my fave character. As she showed in MotFL, this is a woman who has gone thru a whole lot of pain, with a lot more coming. She has her heart stomped on 'till it's covored in cracks, but just holds it in and carries on, until we see in TKO that all those unwept tears could turn her to ice. It's not 'till S4 that she takes the blow that breaks her. All in al, Susan is the most astounding character, and I would also strongly recommend avoiding pissing her off at all costs! ;)

RW7427 November 22nd 04 23:42

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
Quote:

I would also strongly recommend avoiding pissing her off at all costs!


Some learned that the hard way. :D

GreenMonkey November 29th 04 21:20

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
B- (voted C)

Ivanova moment - very sad. Good stuff.
Important story arc for Londo.

Nothing outstandingly noteable, to me, I guess.

Cell May 21st 08 01:04

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
New review, cheers, enjoy,

http://worldsoforos.com/secondviews/...-103/#more-292

Urban Roy April 2nd 09 13:09

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
Another enjoyable episode. Liked the development of Londo's character and the way that we were relatively gently given additional background to the Centauri people. I slightly get the sense that the series is finding its feet as, while there are hints of bigger things going on, these feel like stand alone episodes.

It feels like this episode sets out Babylon 5's stall for being a different kind of show. I can't imagine too many series where the story is driven by an ambassador's relationship with a stripper, still less a sci-fi series doing so (although I think that there are a few films where that wouldn't be out of place).

I thought that the best scenes were in the sub plot with Ivanova and her father, even though it was pushing her family's tragic background strongly I thought that they pulled it off.

The one irritating part for me was Sinclair not being recognised by the manager of the strip club. While some of the transients may not know who he is, I can't imagine that Babylon 5 is so big that all of the permanent residents don't know the commander of the Babylon 5, at least by sight. I'm not sure that putting a cloak on is really that much of a disguise.

Sindatur April 2nd 09 16:08

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Roy (Post 339444)
Another enjoyable episode. Liked the development of Londo's character and the way that we were relatively gently given additional background to the Centauri people. I slightly get the sense that the series is finding its feet as, while there are hints of bigger things going on, these feel like stand alone episodes.

It feels like this episode sets out Babylon 5's stall for being a different kind of show. I can't imagine too many series where the story is driven by an ambassador's relationship with a stripper, still less a sci-fi series doing so (although I think that there are a few films where that wouldn't be out of place).

I thought that the best scenes were in the sub plot with Ivanova and her father, even though it was pushing her family's tragic background strongly I thought that they pulled it off.

The one irritating part for me was Sinclair not being recognised by the manager of the strip club. While some of the transients may not know who he is, I can't imagine that Babylon 5 is so big that all of the permanent residents don't know the commander of the Babylon 5, at least by sight. I'm not sure that putting a cloak on is really that much of a disguise.

Well, the station is 5 miles long, and there are a quarter million people, but, yea Station Commander is a pretty big deal not to know what he looks like, that's like not being able to recognize your mayor or Governor

KoshFan April 2nd 09 16:30

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
Well, to a certain extent you recognize people like that because of context. You see the uniform, like Garibaldi puts it, or you see the commander because you know you're listening to an announcement from the commander. Different clothes, different context... you might not recognize them at first. If my mayor were jogging down the street in sweatpants, with no one around, I think I'd recognize him eventually, but not right away...

Estelyn May 14th 10 20:46

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
This is an enjoyable episode, with lots of character moments, something I particularly appreciate. Knowing Londo's later fate, it is nice to see him happy - and I can't help wondering how different things would have been had he been able to keep Adira.

I like the first signs of lighter-hearted bantering between Londo and G'Kar, and I lke the conversation between Ivanova and Garibaldi - the way they say nothing says it all!

The one thing that irritated me and took me out of the willing suspension of disbelief was that portable game console with which Vir, and later the Narns, were playing. What on earth would anyone be thinking to take such an item into an official meeting?! It may have been an attempt at humour, but I, for one, was not amused.

Estelyn May 15th 10 09:29

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
A detail that I've been pondering since previously posting is a brief moment of cinematography I really like - the transition from Londo alone in his quarters, looking at the brooch and thinking of Adira, to her, also alone in her quarters, holding and looking at the data crystal. (The transition cuts directly from the one object to the other.) I continued thinking of their relationship; when I first saw the episode, I was not convinced of its believability. However, rewatching has shown me how it could have genuinely grown.

The plot element of someone who begins a relationship for the wrong reasons (money, being set upon that person by other powers, etc.), but comes to have genuine feelings for that person, shows up in other genres of literature and film as well. Adira admits to the Centauri preference for persons of power, yet she also shows that Londo attracts her for more personal reasons. At that time in his development, he is a person with whom one could have lots of fun - and he looks so young (comparatively) in this episode!

I like the way we are shown her reluctance to comply with her owner's instructions, yet she feels she has no choice - much like Londo later on, when collaborating with the Shadows. And I like the ending - she apparently feels she must atone for her actions in some way. It's not just all erased instantly for a happy ending.

Lennier's Tears August 5th 15 00:04

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
There are some minor spoilers for later B5 seasons in the list below, but not anything particularly important.

The story in this episode is fairly average, I thought, and there's rather a lot of cheese in this, but I really like what it shows us about Londo and Ivanova. I also quite like the Adira character.

Random details and other stuff that stood out to me during this viewing for one reason or another:
  • That scene where Sinclair and G'Kar go to the Dark Star to confront Londo. Sinclair is kind of ... school teacher-like with Londo. It's weird.
  • Is that outfit Adira is wearing when she dances supposed to show us that Centauri have no bellybuttons?
  • Unlike Estelyn above, I did find the video game sort of amusing.
  • That's a really nice jacket Trakis is wearing ......
  • I like the look of those star laces, too
  • Slavery is legal on Centauri Prime.
  • Fresh Air is the finest restaurant on Babylon 5.... Not that it has THAT much competition :p
  • The graphics on the screen when Garibaldi is tracking those Gold Channel transmissions are somewhat painfully old school. Can't be helped .. it was the nineties.
  • Speaking of Gold Channel ... I've always wondered, what's the deal with that? What exactly IS a priority channel? Is communication with Earth or other planets somewhat difficult? Why else would Ivanova go against regulations and use Gold Channel instead of whatever the regular channel is?
  • Sinclair takes Talia out for dinner to thank her for her service? If only someone had done that with Lyta later on :p Is Talia not wearing her psi corps badge when she's out to dinner? That's ... odd.
  • Londo has a lovely blanket or some other kind of decorative piece of textile on his couch. It appears to have human figures on it. Does he collect human antiques (unlikely), or does this perhaps show us an older style of Centauri fashion, when they didn't do their hair like they do now? (Or am I looking for meaning where there is none beyond "This looks nice and colorful, let's use it as a prop for Londo")
  • Ivanova's one earring is clearly shown even this early in Season 1.
  • I thought Sinclair's clever disguise was pretty amusing, and that fake laugh he did to trick the Dark Star owner was pretty cringeworthy. I like Londo's disguise cloak, although it screams "Centauri" and thus might not be much of a disguise :p
  • Ah, those bad guys. Classic B5 bad guys. I laughed out loud when I saw them appear on my screen.
  • Londo tells Adira that the jewel he gives her belonged to a powerful matriarch in his family. Is that just Londo talking or does it tell us something about Centauri history? What we see of Centauri society in the "present" is that it's very much a patriarchal society where men have power and multiple wives. Women have titles only through their fathers and husbands. We later see some Centauri women who are venerated because of their abilities and/or family associations, but I wouldn't go so far as to call them "powerful" as such.

Wulf August 11th 15 14:58

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
>video game
It seemed a Virish thing to do. I wasn't super-amused but it didn't take me out of the episode. At least, until they showed the front. Technology showing its age. I can understand not wanting to do some fancy sci fi VFX shot for it, but at least leave it to the imagination instead of showing us that it's lame.

>Fresh Air
...that makes sense. I'm apparently dumb and heard it as Freh Cher. Wunna them thar Frenchin' restronts....

>Gold Channel
I don't think it's ever a major plot point, but it comes up a few times over the series that civilian communications are expensive and unreliable. Military communications would need to be reliable to communicate in combat situations, but would likely have limited capacity.

It's the difference between a military "Red Phone" and Verizon placing a call. At least as I picture it.

Ivanova would use Gold Channel because her father will die at any minute. I can see that being important enough that you wouldn't want to get a "Please hang up and try your call again" midway through.

Also, it's a plot device, so there's that.

>Sinclair's laugh
Great Maker, none of these people know how to laugh. Garibaldi and Sinclair should get together and just laugh and laugh. That would be ****ing creepy to watch....

>Londo's disguise
I don't think it was supposed to hide that he was Centauri, just his hair. The longer a Centauri's hair, the higher his rank. Since he's probably the highest ranked Centauri on B5 it would be immediately obvious who he was even if nobody knew his face.

>matriarch
Patriarchal societies can still have matriarchs. Not in the full "leader of the family" sense, but they can still have power. In a society as willing to assassinate and blackmail as the Centauri, I could easily see a woman being the power behind the power and it being well known enough for her to have her own respect.

As for the rest of the episode, I'm getting out of the "setup" feeling so it was an enjoyable watch. Cheesy, not too exciting, but not too objectionable.

I'm sure that will all change soon as I think I've got Infection next. I don't remember much about it except for the lame racial purity commentary and it being the first episode filmed.

Lennier's Tears August 11th 15 17:37

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulf (Post 451821)
>video game
It seemed a Virish thing to do. I wasn't super-amused but it didn't take me out of the episode. At least, until they showed the front. Technology showing its age. I can understand not wanting to do some fancy sci fi VFX shot for it, but at least leave it to the imagination instead of showing us that it's lame.

Could be an antique ;)

Quote:


>Gold Channel
I don't think it's ever a major plot point, but it comes up a few times over the series that civilian communications are expensive and unreliable. Military communications would need to be reliable to communicate in combat situations, but would likely have limited capacity.

It's the difference between a military "Red Phone" and Verizon placing a call. At least as I picture it.

Ivanova would use Gold Channel because her father will die at any minute. I can see that being important enough that you wouldn't want to get a "Please hang up and try your call again" midway through.

Also, it's a plot device, so there's that.
Yea, I can see that ... I guess I can't really say why I feel like the civilian communications seem to work just fine, because I can't think of any examples of it being used. Civilian TV seems to work just fine, though.

Quote:

>Londo's disguise
I don't think it was supposed to hide that he was Centauri, just his hair. The longer a Centauri's hair, the higher his rank. Since he's probably the highest ranked Centauri on B5 it would be immediately obvious who he was even if nobody knew his face.
Good point, that.

Quote:

>matriarch
Patriarchal societies can still have matriarchs. Not in the full "leader of the family" sense, but they can still have power. In a society as willing to assassinate and blackmail as the Centauri, I could easily see a woman being the power behind the power and it being well known enough for her to have her own respect.
That's all true. Women in patriarchal societies where men have all the official power don't just sit around doing laundry or whatever. They have their own networks and depending on the societal organization might indeed be the rulers of their households. I would imagine that in Centauri society there's DEFINITELY women who are the "power behind the power", as you say. That stuff tends to be "off the books", and not talked about by men. In the end, it's a word, and it could mean all sorts of things. He probably meant it in the sense of "dowager" or something. But I would LOVE if Centauri history was all worked out in great detail, and this was indeed a hint that they had a completely different society at some point.

Wulf August 11th 15 19:02

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
Civilian TV also has no requirement to be 100% live though. So it can buffer the show ahead of time and play it in complete chunks as needed.

I'm having trouble thinking of civilian uses of communication as well though. Isn't there something like that with the Mars troubles later on though? Or is that just a general communications blackout? I can't recall.

Lennier's Tears August 11th 15 20:46

Re: EpDis: Born To The Purple
 
Spoilers for seasons 3 and 4 below.

It's amazingly easy to forget details and whole plotlines. I sort of feel like I know everything that happens on Babylon 5. At least, the stuff we actually see happening on the show and in the movies, I'm not nearly as up to speed on all the stuff that happens in the books and comics, or the things that "So-And-So said in an interview one time". Yet, I keep finding that I have forgotten lots of things when I post in these threads. There was another episode thread where I couldn't remember that Anna Sheridan was indeed a confirmed archaeologist, not an unspecified scientist on a vessel sent to distant planets for all kinds of research, including archaeology. It's totally canon, Sheridan talks about it in "Thirdspace", and it's something I'd think I would remember. Yet, I obviously didn't :p

Anyway, yes, there is a communications blackout when Mars breaks away from Earth, all communication from Mars is cut off, and I think maybe when Babylon 5 breaks away from Earth they're sort of cut off, too. I have forgotten that, too :p


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:47.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2008 B5TV.COM