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-   -   EpDis: The Gathering (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=6648)

vacantlook February 28th 09 23:08

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Heh! It is pretty fun that the Vorlon ships were visually designed off of the shape of garlic. Maybe that's why Vorlons are so secretive: they don't want people to smell their garlicy breath! Heh!

KoshFan March 1st 09 00:22

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Ah, great! Urban, it's always fun to see a newbie's perspective on the series. I can see it again for the first time, vicariously...

crazyhorse March 1st 09 12:36

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Nice to see that you started with The Gathering Urban Roy :thumbsup:

While it is far from the best B5 it does set the scene nicely.This is no nice Federation of Planets but a group of aliens that hardly trust each other stuck together on a station.

I have to agree with you about Londo,my favourite character of the show :bolian:

I would suggest that you start your own thread to discuss the show if you want to avoid spoilers as these EpDis are full of them.I would also suggest avoiding most of the rest of the forum as spoilers are littered everywhere :lol:

You should be safe in NC-17,if you can call that place safe :devil:

Urban Roy March 1st 09 20:21

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vacantlook (Post 337106)
I look forward to reading your thoughts as you watch the show. Thanks for posting them!

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 337121)
Ah, great! Urban, it's always fun to see a newbie's perspective on the series. I can see it again for the first time, vicariously...

It's a pleasure! It's great for me to get some reaction from people who know what they are talking about. I get the feeling that this is the kind of show that is going to end up multilayered and convoluted so having somewhere I can discuss it is just fab. Trying to discuss this around the water cooler at work just gets me strange looks...

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorse (Post 337161)
I would suggest that you start your own thread to discuss the show if you want to avoid spoilers as these EpDis are full of them.I would also suggest avoiding most of the rest of the forum as spoilers are littered everywhere :lol:

If no-one minds I'll keep posting on the individual threads for each episode as it seems the best place (and as a Newbie I'm not cocky enough to want to be starting my own threads). I am planning to avoid actually reading each EpDis until I have seen the episode in question to avoid the worst of the spoilers but I don't have the best memory so I'm sure that I''ll be fine.

Alexa April 21st 09 22:17

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
I am watching The Gathering now, and I have a question...or really more of a puzzled observation. When Kosh`s ship is docking at the station, control of his ship is turned over to C&C. Yet later in the series much is made of how big a mystery his 'living ship' is. So, how did they control and dock it?

Also....something that has struck me since I first started watching...well, I guess it was years ago. I think JMS liked to play with our prejudices a little. He made Londo a sympathetic character at first, and G`Kar the villian....then switched them about (at least partially). I think people were very ready to accept that the more 'human' looking Londo was a good guy, and the very 'alien' G`Kar was the evil. I wonder how some reacted when they were 'switched'?

ETA I am also very glad they changed Delenns chin and softened her look somewhat. It was somewhat...odd looking, though that just could be because I am used to the later version of her.

Sindatur April 21st 09 22:53

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexa (Post 340850)
I am watching The Gathering now, and I have a question...or really more of a puzzled observation. When Kosh`s ship is docking at the station, control of his ship is turned over to C&C. Yet later in the series much is made of how big a mystery his 'living ship' is. So, how did they control and dock it?

Also....something that has struck me since I first started watching...well, I guess it was years ago. I think JMS liked to play with our prejudices a little. He made Londo a sympathetic character at first, and G`Kar the villian....then switched them about (at least partially). I think people were very ready to accept that the more 'human' looking Londo was a good guy, and the very 'alien' G`Kar was the evil. I wonder how some reacted when they were 'switched'?

ETA I am also very glad they changed Delenns chin and softened her look somewhat. It was somewhat...odd looking, though that just could be because I am used to the later version of her.

Was it actual control of the ship, or was the ship simply towed in

Nice observation about G'Kar and Londo, I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. I was surprised to see them changing roles on the first evidence of it

Delenn, I don't seem to recall thinking she looked that strange on the airing of the original Pilot, but, yea, definitely her look in the Gathering is very strange now, after becoming so accustomed to her later look. So, that may be it (or4 I may just not remember how odd she looked on the original airing of the Pilot)

I almost can't wait until the normal TV season ends in May, I've been looking forward to having the time to start the series over myself

KoshN April 21st 09 23:05

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vacantlook (Post 337119)
Heh! It is pretty fun that the Vorlon ships were visually designed off of the shape of garlic. Maybe that's why Vorlons are so secretive:

Oh there's the pot calling the kettle black!



Quote:

Originally Posted by vacantlook (Post 337119)
they don't want people to smell their garlicy breath! Heh!

All the better to keep those insulting Shadows away.

Alexa April 22nd 09 00:22

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 340854)
Was it actual control of the ship, or was the ship simply towed in

Nice observation about G'Kar and Londo, I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. I was surprised to see them changing roles on the first evidence of it

Delenn, I don't seem to recall thinking she looked that strange on the airing of the original Pilot, but, yea, definitely her look in the Gathering is very strange now, after becoming so accustomed to her later look. So, that may be it (or4 I may just not remember how odd she looked on the original airing of the Pilot)

I almost can't wait until the normal TV season ends in May, I've been looking forward to having the time to start the series over myself

She (Takashima (sp?) says "please surrender control of your vessel to our central computer on my mark" (I just reversed to make sure :)) So, I am puzzled. It is a small thing really, and I don`t want to nit pick the show. Even JMS couldn`t have every little detail ironed out before the rest of the eps aired, although I think he has managed it the best of any series I have seen.

Thanks for the praise. I don`t take it lightly. From what I have read here, your posters certainly know their stuff! I think this is the right place to expand my knowledge!

As for Delenn...she seems much more 'spotty' and her chin is best described as 'agressive' ;)

I am watching "The Gathering" (newer version). And I have read the first couple posts here
http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=9892

and i`m still a bit confused as to the order of the series and the movies. I tend to watch things chronologically when possible, regardless of when they were made, so I guess The Gathering is my starting point. I have watched the series many times, the movies less as I didn`t get them until much later.

Jan April 22nd 09 01:01

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
I think it's just a matter of one computer talking to each other but no data was exchanged that didn't pertain to docking maneuvers. I'd imagine that the Station would insist on taking control to ensure that rotation was matched completely. That there were other aspects to the ship, like the skin that could communicate and morph into weapons when a threat was perceived wouldn't be something that could be 'noticed' by a machine such as the docking computers. That required actually seeing the ship up close and personal by a sentient being.

Jan

vacantlook April 22nd 09 01:34

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Since docking isn't quite as instant as we see it (with it being, one a dramatic show, and two, only 40-some minutes long, we don't get the entirety of the docking procedure depicted), maybe when a ship first arrives at the station and is assigned a spot in the docking queue, a docking program is uploaded to a ship's system to enable the station's computer system to adjust the ship's movement -- thinks like, rotate ship however many degrees, adjust trust this way and that, etc -- so that the ship can dock. Ships, like shuttles, that are standard for shipping passengers between a starliner or battleship to the station might come preloaded with the software.

vacantlook April 22nd 09 01:38

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Oh, and I still like the ears on Delenn in The Gathering more than I do the ears they gave the Minbari in the show-proper. I'm fine with softening the brow and chin, but the show's ears look like the flat prosthetic that they are; but, The Gathering ears look like actual ears with a canal into the head and all.

Alexa April 22nd 09 01:54

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vacantlook (Post 340873)
Oh, and I still like the ears on Delenn in The Gathering more than I do the ears they gave the Minbari in the show-proper. I'm fine with softening the brow and chin, but the show's ears look like the flat prosthetic that they are; but, The Gathering ears look like actual ears with a canal into the head and all.

I didn`t notice her ears. I`ll go back and look. :)

Alexa April 22nd 09 01:57

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
You are absolutely right! I always disliked the Minbari ears in the series. The pattern on her 'bone' is different also, isn`t it?

vacantlook April 22nd 09 02:42

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Yeah, the bones are quite a bit different. The bones in the series are a greyish blue, where as the one in The Gathering is brownish.

Sindatur April 22nd 09 02:43

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexa (Post 340865)
and i`m still a bit confused as to the order of the series and the movies. I tend to watch things chronologically when possible, regardless of when they were made, so I guess The Gathering is my starting point. I have watched the series many times, the movies less as I didn`t get them until much later.

Sorry, KoshN generally posts an explicit response to such requests, that must be a thread he didn't get a chance to reply to. One of the Kosh (KoshN or KoshFan), or maybe even VacantLook or a couple others may provide a better slightly adjusted list (including Movies), but, this is the Lurker's guide version, which also includes the JMS preferred order of the mangled continuity of Crusade (D@mn you TNT)

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countr...er/eplist.html

Alexa April 22nd 09 02:47

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Thanks again. I really appreciate all the responses to my questions. I truly feel like an amateur here when I read some of the in-depth discussions between some members here. I hope I am not being too much of a pest! :)

Sindatur April 22nd 09 02:51

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexa (Post 340886)
Thanks again. I really appreciate all the responses to my questions. I truly feel like an amateur here when I read some of the in-depth discussions between some members here. I hope I am not being too much of a pest! :)

Oh, on that list at that link, you can click on each episode title and be taken to an analysis of the time with some more recent updates as well, so that may be fun for you to try as you're watching, if you didn't follow the Lurker's Guide back in the Day

Jade Jaguar April 22nd 09 03:12

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexa (Post 340850)
Also....something that has struck me since I first started watching...well, I guess it was years ago. I think JMS liked to play with our prejudices a little. He made Londo a sympathetic character at first, and G`Kar the villian....then switched them about (at least partially). I think people were very ready to accept that the more 'human' looking Londo was a good guy, and the very 'alien' G`Kar was the evil. I wonder how some reacted when they were 'switched'?

I agree completely that JMS was playing with our prejudices. But, I don't think G'Kar was exactly a villain. He was made out to be an angry, accusatory, hot-head, which is not exactly a sympathetic character to most people. But, he and the Narns had every right to feel that way, given their history with the Centauri. So, I liked G'Kar from the start, because I sympathized with his feelings right away. He grew to be by far my favorite character.

Alexa April 22nd 09 03:55

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Oh crud! I just voted in the poll at the top of this discussion, then realized it isn`t the poll for this ep. What is "Keep Chapel"?

KoshFan April 22nd 09 04:19

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
The polls got seriously messed up somehow, none of them match their threads. The internet does strange things sometimes...

The big debate over movies is which to watch when. Do you watch the Gathering first, or In the Beginning? Chronologically it should be the latter, but dramatically speaking you gotta put the Gathering first. Except that in the new/improved version of the Gathering Kosh drops quite the spoiler...

I often advocate watching "Midnight on the Firing Line" first, but I'll admit it's been many a year since I saw the Gathering.

Sindatur April 22nd 09 04:31

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Oh, BTW, KoshFan and KoshN, my apologies for the bad phrasing, I should have said, "One of the Vorlon", not "One of the Kosh". My apologies for implying Generics to you

Jade Jaguar April 22nd 09 04:51

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 340893)
My apologies for implying Generics to you

Ooh! I think you've inadvertently stumbled on a good curse! I think that in the future, instead of saying Up yours, buddy! I'll say Generics to you! :D

vacantlook April 22nd 09 08:22

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 340892)
The polls got seriously messed up somehow, none of them match their threads. The internet does strange things sometimes...

The polls got all wonky back when the board was transitioned from the old software the board used to be run on to the vBulletin that it's now run on. Polls that were created in threads under the old software ended up messed up a bit as a result of that transition. I think -- think being operative word -- that the polls are still the same, just that the "poll question" part of the poll is mislabeled, so voting should still be valid for each thread's respective episode.

KoshN April 22nd 09 08:42

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 340885)
Sorry, KoshN generally posts an explicit response to such requests,

Yes, probably a half-dozen or more times in various threads around here. If I had a big ego, I'd probably be requesting a KoshN Order (just to indicate that it's my order, and not anything "official.") FAQ sticky thread. :rolleyes: ...but then lots of other people would probably want their own "_____ Order FAQ sticky threads" so this is a Pandora's Box that you probably don't want to open. ;)


Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindatur (Post 340885)
that must be a thread he didn't get a chance to reply to.

I didn't read the whole thread.

crazyhorse April 22nd 09 12:24

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
I'm wondering if the surrender of control was just a matter of switching engines off and letting docking tractor beams controlled by B5's computer take over :confused:

I can't imagine any race giving Earthforce access to their ships computer.

The only time we did see a ship try to dock on its own it crashed and I'm sure it fired its engines up then instead of just gliding in under B5's control.

crazyhorse April 22nd 09 12:25

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Oh and welcome Alexa :beer:

crazyhorse April 22nd 09 13:25

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vacantlook (Post 340918)
The polls got all wonky back when the board was transitioned from the old software the board used to be run on to the vBulletin that it's now run on. Polls that were created in threads under the old software ended up messed up a bit as a result of that transition. I think -- think being operative word -- that the polls are still the same, just that the "poll question" part of the poll is mislabeled, so voting should still be valid for each thread's respective episode.

Well Markas should stop being so lazy and use his mod powers for good for a change and bloody edit them to the correct episode :devil:

Too busy talking cock with Cilli more than likely :evil:

KoshN April 22nd 09 16:00

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorse (Post 340928)
Well Markas should stop being so lazy and use his mod powers for good for a change and bloody edit them to the correct episode :devil:

Or maybe just delete the:

View Poll Results: nonsensical words

....from the top border of every Poll bar chart? That's the part that's always getting screwed up every time they change software.

Alexa April 22nd 09 21:28

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade Jaguar (Post 340889)
I agree completely that JMS was playing with our prejudices. But, I don't think G'Kar was exactly a villain. He was made out to be an angry, accusatory, hot-head, which is not exactly a sympathetic character to most people. But, he and the Narns had every right to feel that way, given their history with the Centauri. So, I liked G'Kar from the start, because I sympathized with his feelings right away. He grew to be by far my favorite character.

G`Kar was and is my favorite from the show also. I said "villain" , but I should have qualified that, he was more like "villain light" in the series proper. Not truly evil, but nowhere near the enlightened G`Kar we see in the later eps. This G`Kar is angry,and his anger is ruling him. I sympathized with his anger, but he wasn`t a like-able character, not to me, anyway. After I saw his machinations in "The Gathering" ie: him bringing the assassin on board with the changeling net, the implication being that G`Kar had tried to have Kosh assassinated and the blame placed on the Minbari (which puzzles me, you would think he would have tried to place the blame on the Centauri) he does, imo, fit the definition of villain. For at least a little while, anyway.

Wow...that was a long convoluted sentence I have there. Sorry `bout that!

Alexa April 22nd 09 21:40

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorse (Post 340926)
I'm wondering if the surrender of control was just a matter of switching engines off and letting docking tractor beams controlled by B5's computer take over :confused:

I can't imagine any race giving Earthforce access to their ships computer.

The only time we did see a ship try to dock on its own it crashed and I'm sure it fired its engines up then instead of just gliding in under B5's control.


Very good point crazyhorse, about giving them access to their computer.I am likely just over thinking the whole thing. It is, science fiction, after all! ;)

I remember the ship crashing. That was the ep about the docking guild, was it not?

vacantlook April 22nd 09 21:42

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
It's interesting to think of the events of "The Gathering" in light of the information we gained from jms in the bonus 15th scriptbook.

Spoiler for :
From the information gained in the narrative write-up that jms did about where the show was going with Sinclair as the main character, written back before Michael O'Hare left the show, the assassination attempt on Kosh stands in a different light.

The original planned finale for Babylon 5 was that the station was going to be destroyed by the Minbari. The Minbari warrior caste had overthrown the Grey Council and were in control of the Minbari government, and they were going to attack and destroy the station.

In The Gathering, Delenn says that the assassin belonged to a certain group from within the warrior caste; my guess is that he was a part of the same group that was going to spearhead the overthrow the Grey Council and lead the Minbari to destroy the station. I imagine that group was the Windswords, which Lennier identifies as the group that supported Deathwalker.

Alexa April 22nd 09 21:42

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorse (Post 340927)
Oh and welcome Alexa :beer:

Thank-you! :beer:

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyhorse (Post 340928)
Well Markas should stop being so lazy and use his mod powers for good for a change and bloody edit them to the correct episode :devil:

Too busy talking cock with Cilli more than likely :evil:

:eek:

Alexa April 22nd 09 21:49

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
"It's interesting to think of the events of "The Gathering" in light of the information we gained from jms in the bonus 15th scriptbook.'


(I deleted the spoiler as it was showing in it`s entirety in the quote)

Thanks vacantlook. this does explain where they were going with that. I immediately thought Windswords when the 'group from within the Warrior Caste' was mentioned. I expected further dialogue going in that direction, but it didn`t happen.

A_M_Swallow April 24th 09 04:03

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexa (Post 340850)
I am watching The Gathering now, and I have a question...or really more of a puzzled observation. When Kosh`s ship is docking at the station, control of his ship is turned over to C&C. Yet later in the series much is made of how big a mystery his 'living ship' is. So, how did they control and dock it?
{snip}

I just assume that the B5 computer sent the spaceship Golden Shot type commands - up a bit, left a bit, forward, faster and stop. The spaceship's own computer would work out how the instruction was obeyed and may be able to veto it. The instructions may even be in a standardised protocol, there are plenty of other spacestations around.

Estelyn May 14th 10 17:59

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
One detail that I hadn't previously noticed and that actually caused a double-take was the presence of Ed Wasser (aka Mr. Morden) near the end of the pilot. He's one of the crew (I'm not sure whether military or civilian tech) that helps to stabilize the station after it has been put out of whack by the bomb!

KoshFan May 14th 10 18:06

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Yup! Two totally distinct characters, and the similarity is never explained. After that they usually just went with putting the same actor in different alien masks.

If you listen closely, you can hear very familiar voices at times: Ombuds Wellington from Season 1 is G'Kar's uncle in Season 2, and Wayne Alexander (Sebastian) turns up in two other very different roles... finally there were the "B5 Rep Company" actors, who played literally dozens of different aliens. Part of the reason all the Drazi sound the same is that Kim Strauss played most of them.

Jan May 14th 10 18:55

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Oddly enough for a character with so few lines, Ed Wasser's character had a name in 'The Gathering', Guerra. When I had him sign some scripts for me a while back, he was careful to note "Guerra" on the Gathering script and "Morden" on the others. I thought that was cool.

Jan

Estelyn May 14th 10 19:04

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 361370)
Two totally distinct characters, and the similarity is never explained.

I'm reminded of the actress who plays the doctor on Crusade and had a very different role in - was it CtA? JMS' commmentary explained that they were perhaps twin sisters. ;) So perhaps Morden is the evil twin? :eek:

KoshFan May 14th 10 20:29

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan (Post 361372)
Oddly enough for a character with so few lines, Ed Wasser's character had a name in 'The Gathering', Guerra. When I had him sign some scripts for me a while back, he was careful to note "Guerra" on the Gathering script and "Morden" on the others. I thought that was cool.

Jan

So few lines? Doesn't he say, "On it!" and that's the last we hear from him? That's not a line, that's not even three syllables!

Very cool about Guerra, though.

The best Ed Wasser story I ever heard was when he walked into a store, and the man behind the counter said, "What do you want?" Wasser gave him his order -- and the man said, "But what do you want?"

Jade Jaguar May 16th 10 06:03

Re: EpDis: The Gathering
 
:lol: That's a good one, alright!


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