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Looney October 12th 17 05:45

Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Reading Between The Lines – The Gathering

So reading between the lines of The Gathering I feel means looking at many facets of the Babylon 5 pilot including taking it from the perspective of someone who is seeing it for the first time with no prior knowledge of Babylon 5. I plan to speculate on this as well speculation and postulation about story aspects that can be derived from Reading Between The Lines of BOTH VERSIONS of The Gathering.

*DISCLAIMER: I am someone who does not feel that one version of The Gathering is better than the other. I give each version points for what I like and what I feel works versus the opposite. And as another part of the disclaimer I will say that I am not going to go line by line through the show, despite what you are about to read. And that this opening does get a little better as you go. LOL

Okay so diving right in, the opening narration. “I was there.” This sentence is in the past tense so we know immediately this story has already happened in this character’s life. If I am a first-time viewer I can assume this is a focal character and this voice is one of a person who is going to be there until the end of the story. This becomes important when Londo is introduced and those expectations take form in a character. It becomes even more interesting when you look at the role Londo ends up playing in The Gathering as he is not the focal character. He is more of a peripheral character who only gives exposition about his character and race with a little bit of plot momentum when the investigation calls for it. So here you have a narrator whom you know lives to tell the tale and is introduced as an important figure, but not a very significant part of the opening to the saga. Of course, this choice for narrator becomes even more fascinating when you look at the series and the path Londo chose.

I am going to skirt past Londo saying “The Third age of mankind” because I had way too much written about it and it all amounts to nonsense; an opinion many readers will have about every word I say in this post. Moving on to “Deep in neutral space.” If I am a first-time viewer what does this sentence mean? Does it mean it is far away from everything or that there is a big gap between portions of hostile territory? Also who decided it is “neutral space”? Wouldn’t unclaimed space be more appropriate? Of course, we learn later Earth Force seems to think of it as Earth territory. The point is that using the words “deep” and “neutral” intimates that there is plenty of non-neutral space, but it isn't too close. :lol:

“Port of call for refugees, smugglers, businessmen, diplomats, and travelers from a hundred worlds.” If I am a new viewer shouldn’t it really seem odd that the narrator just said B5 was a “Port of call for smugglers.”? Again this is being told in the past tense so the narrator knows that while likely not intentionally setup to cater to smugglers, B5 did end up catering to smugglers and criminals. As far as the other groups go it is great a great setup for exactly what you would expect for a space station deep in neutral space.

Londo says it could be a dangerous place, but coming there was worth the risk because it was the “last” hope for peace. This is significant because he is telling us it is a dangerous place that is also meant to be a place of peace. Quite obviously if I am hearing this for the first time I can assume there are wars that have just ended; current wars happening at this moment; or expected future wars. Using the word “last” says that they must all be on the brink of war.

A new viewer might also assume this character thinks the experiment that is Babylon 5 was worth risking something because of this quote. We don’t quite know if he thought he was risking his life, but it is safe to assume this character thinks it is important. We learn later in The Gathering and in the series that this really wasn’t the case when Londo took his assignment to Babylon 5. We learn Londo was given this post to get him out of the way. We learn that most Centauri thought Babylon 5 was not important. We learn that Londo thinks of himself as a “washed up old Republican.” who longs for the glory days. And even in this pilot movie we learn that he is there so the Centauri can “grovel” at the feet of the Earth Alliance. These first words of dialogue make our narrator seem to be a person of character, but we learn that in fact Londo did not think Babylon 5 was the “Last best hope for peace.” at the time he took up residence there. He did not think it was worth the risk, unless you intimate that he felt it was worth the risk that he not lose whatever standing he had in the eyes of the people who assigned him there. Or the risk was worth it because he thought he had opportunities there. I feel the latter of those statements is not true. Right from the start the Londo we are introduced to in The Gathering seems to feel his assignment to Babylon 5 was a cross to bear. He is not the same Londo who delivers this narration, which is a very interesting dynamic. The narrator sets it up like he is telling the story, so he sets up that they had noble reasons for being there and then shows his character really didn’t feel that way at the time. Reading between the lines of this narration and the character we are eventually introduced to tells us this is a person who is, at a minimum, going to go through big changes in his opinion about the importance of Babylon 5.

A big difference between the Original Edit versus the Special Edition is what is removed. This narration is no exception. Dropped is a bit about one person coming to B5 on a mission of destruction. Another dropped item is one of the oddest points of the Original Edit’s Opening Narration. Londo calls Sinclair the “final” commander. It is odd because we learn he is the first commander. If I am seeing this for the first time then I believe I would think it foreshadows a short life for the station. We learn when the story picks up the station is just getting up to full speed, so saying Sinclair is the “final” commander intimates that it is a short-lived situation. Reading Between The Lines you could say that this is telling us the narrator is speaking after the station is gone. This quote does disappear in the Special Edition and is one point I give the Special Edition over the Original Edit. It can work to let the audience know at the beginning that there is an ending, but I don’t like the suggested effect that this place is only around for a span of time covering one person’s command. I feel the quote, “Last of the Babylon Stations” suggests an ending with less finality. If I am a new viewer I think I might assume “final” says this might all be a waste of time, but just saying it is the “Last” doesn’t mean it doesn’t last. ;)

On that last note I will move away from what first-time viewers might think for a bit to mention another interesting distinction between the two versions of the narration you only truly learn after seeing In The Beginning (1998); this narration was redone for the Special Edition version. In the Special Edition version Peter Jurasik’s voice sounds similar to the narration for In The Beginning. And isn’t it interesting that these two movies ended up being a Double Feature DVD?! :cool: You could even imagine that the narration in The Gathering is Londo telling Luc and Lyssa another story if you had already seen In The Beginning. (I still believe In The Beginning should be watched toward the end of any re-watch.)

So that is enough about the narration and enough of a start. I know it is a lot of obvious rehash of stuff you may have discussed or read in the past, but when you think about it there is a lot going on with this brief setup narration. JMS really worked that dialogue into something that grabs the viewer. My next post won’t be so specific about individual lines of dialogue, but I think we can all agree that this narration was meant to set the table to it deserves scrutiny.

KoshFan October 13th 17 17:34

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Very thorough, Looney!

The irony of Sinclair being the "final" commander, of course, is that while it might have hinted at a short life for the station, JMS actually intended Sinclair to be in charge for twenty straight years...

Looney October 14th 17 05:00

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 459583)
Very thorough, Looney!

The irony of Sinclair being the "final" commander, of course, is that while it might have hinted at a short life for the station, JMS actually intended Sinclair to be in charge for twenty straight years...

Yes, very true. Wouldn't that have been a FANTASTIC SHOW. Forget 5 seasons! Give me twenty seasons of Babylon 5. Think how weird that final season would be. :lol: ;)

POST NUMBER 200 ! ! ! ! ! (Takes well deserved bow) :guffaw:

KoshFan October 15th 17 02:46

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Looney (Post 459587)

Yes, very true. Wouldn't that have been a FANTASTIC SHOW. Forget 5 seasons! Give me twenty seasons of Babylon 5. Think how weird that final season would be. :lol: ;)

Oh, I dunno, eventually they would have run out of jokes.

On the other hand, think about the savings in old-age makeup! Just wait until the actor really looks it!

(But in all seriousness, O'Hare wouldn't have been able to do it, poor man.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Looney (Post 459587)
POST NUMBER 200 ! ! ! ! ! (Takes well deserved bow) :guffaw:

"Richly deserved indeed," says post 10,535

Looney October 15th 17 08:26

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 459588)

"Richly deserved indeed," says post 10,535

Yeah I am actually WAY off that pace. I started April 28th, 2017 and I am only at 200. I should probably hang my head in shame. :confused: :lol: ;)

KoshFan October 17th 17 05:30

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
In all seriousness, I was real talkative here (due to being fairly lonely IRL) at a time when we had a lot more people and a lot more conversations. I doubt we'll ever see that level of discussion again. Post counts don't matter all that much, anyway.

If you're feeling deeply ashamed, however, you can always head over to Babbleon. That'll boost your count right on up.

Looney October 17th 17 05:52

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Post counts don't actually mean anything to me after the number 10. I figure if someone makes 10 posts they might stick around awhile. :lol:

And Babbleon is another reason I feel count doesn't matter much considering how those posts are being made to continue post streaks. ;) :lol:

Don't get me wrong, it is neat when you hit a count that seems significant, but in the long run it the only significance is that you are engaged.

KoshFan October 20th 17 14:24

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Oh indeed, on all counts.

Looney October 21st 17 22:14

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Sorry these installments are taking so long, but I could talk for hours about every scene and just about every line of dialogue in Babylon 5. I'm trying to edit down super long posts into just long enough that reader's might make it to the end, but I am not counting on it. :guffaw:

Looney November 7th 17 03:58

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Okay so I know I have dropped the ball on this for a bit, but I've written a lot and I decided to break it up and do smaller posts, one thing at a time so to speak. Picking up where I left off. I could try to analyze every scene and line of dialogue, but nobody wants that. :rolleyes: I am trying to break it down and just try to mention some interesting observations from my perspective. As The Gathering gets going JMS gives us a taste for how things are working; people and ships are coming and going. There are MANY opportunities for me to Read Between The Lines.

Side Notes – The fact that Lyta needs Sinclair’s personal approval to board the station is interesting. Does anyone know if JMS meant for this to continue with all Telepaths or was this just meant to establish some significance to her coming to B5 in an official capacity?

One scene I love is the exposition of Sinclair walking with Lyta when she arrives in both versions. I understand why some of it was removed for the Special Edition, but despite some effects that people might think look a little silly I think this journey works in both versions. The dialogue seems like blatant exposition Lyta should already know as an “Official Psi Corps Representative”, but I feel the way O’Hare delivers it almost sounds like he is a tour guide who is simultaneously delivering a legal disclaimer. She is the Official Psi Corps Representative and it seems like he is giving her the shtick that the higher-ups require him to deliver before they give her any authority. It is brilliant because he is also telling the audience about the station and how things work as they walk through a critical sector. I don't know if this is exactly "Reading Between The Lines" or just recognition that I feel there is more to what O'Hare is doing than just saying his lines. When I hear his delivery I hear the information, but the way he is saying the words gives me a duel reaction.

On the flip side what doesn’t work so well for me is when Lyta asks “Why Babylon 5?” She is the Official Psi Corps Representative and she did zero research?! I mean you could say that she was possibly busy with training during the time frame the Babylon Station’s construction was in the news, I know I missed a lot of world events when I was in college, but to say she got the assignment and then didn’t look up the info about where she was going seems very off - especially given Babylon 5's high profile. I know it is meant for the audience, but as brilliant as I feel it is when Sinclair is laying out the info to her I feel the opposite when she needs to be told why this is the fifth station. I don't mean Patricia Tallman did anything wrong. I just feel that maybe it was a poor choice to put that bit of exposition at that moment.

So there is a little bit. I know it isn't mind-blowing, but it is compartmentalized. :lol:

b5historyman November 7th 17 11:50

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
I think it's to do with Psi Corps not being interested in the affairs of Mundanes unless it impacts on them. Lyta was working for Xenocorp from 2247-2257 so to be generous, she could have been out of Earth Alliance territory for all those years.

Looney November 8th 17 21:29

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by b5historyman (Post 459724)
I think it's to do with Psi Corps not being interested in the affairs of Mundanes unless it impacts on them. Lyta was working for Xenocorp from 2247-2257 so to be generous, she could have been out of Earth Alliance territory for all those years.

See that is interesting because I have always wondered why Lyta was sent to Babylon 5. When looking at the situation I have always thought that Psi Corps would be VERY interested in Babylon 5 and therefore the representative they would send would be very important; a point eventually proven by what happens with Talia Winters. Babylon 5 represented a place where Telepaths from other races could come into contact with Earthforce personnel as well as be in close proximity to Earth representatives and business people. I've always thought it a bit strange that Psi Corps didn't have a larger presence on B5 than we were shown. Of course we know they had people everywhere, but in The Gathering it appears from the audience perspective that Lyta is set up to be an average representative until she is asked to help in the Kosh situation. It is only through events that unfold as the episodes move forward that it appears Psi Corps takes an interest in B5 until Talia's sleeper personality is awakened. We learn that Psi Corps thought enough of B5 to have gone through the trouble to plant Talia there. Anyway, point being is yes it is very possible Lyta missed the Babylon Project construction news cycle, but isn't it odd that Psi Corps would send a Telepath whom appears to quite average to Babylon 5 initially only to replace her with a Telepath that they have implanted with an alternate personality? One could say the Kosh incident made them take notice, but shouldn't they have thought enough of B5 from the reasons I've mentioned to send more than just a P5? ;)

b5historyman November 9th 17 12:41

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
It has to be said that Londo's narration is part of his conversation with Vir in The Legions of Fire: Out of the Darkness. So from the story point of view this is between Londo getting drunk after speaking to Luc and Lyssa and before he has Delenn and Sheridan brought to him

vorlonlovechild November 10th 17 09:49

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
It's a good pilot for a great series. Such a shame O'Hare didn't finish what he started due to illness.

b5historyman November 10th 17 11:50

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Looney (Post 459729)
Quote:

Originally Posted by b5historyman (Post 459724)
I think it's to do with Psi Corps not being interested in the affairs of Mundanes unless it impacts on them. Lyta was working for Xenocorp from 2247-2257 so to be generous, she could have been out of Earth Alliance territory for all those years.

See that is interesting because I have always wondered why Lyta was sent to Babylon 5. When looking at the situation I have always thought that Psi Corps would be VERY interested in Babylon 5 and therefore the representative they would send would be very important; a point eventually proven by what happens with Talia Winters. Babylon 5 represented a place where Telepaths from other races could come into contact with Earthforce personnel as well as be in close proximity to Earth representatives and business people. I've always thought it a bit strange that Psi Corps didn't have a larger presence on B5 than we were shown. Of course we know they had people everywhere, but in The Gathering it appears from the audience perspective that Lyta is set up to be an average representative until she is asked to help in the Kosh situation. It is only through events that unfold as the episodes move forward that it appears Psi Corps takes an interest in B5 until Talia's sleeper personality is awakened. We learn that Psi Corps thought enough of B5 to have gone through the trouble to plant Talia there. Anyway, point being is yes it is very possible Lyta missed the Babylon Project construction news cycle, but isn't it odd that Psi Corps would send a Telepath whom appears to quite average to Babylon 5 initially only to replace her with a Telepath that they have implanted with an alternate personality? One could say the Kosh incident made them take notice, but shouldn't they have thought enough of B5 from the reasons I've mentioned to send more than just a P5? ;)

Well the Corps called her back to Earth later on to find out what happened and she was a prisoner until escaping through the undeground. Sure as hell would have raised red flags with them, one of their number had physical contact with a Vorlon.

Talia's assignment I suspect was in part due to the investigation into the attack on Kosh and Laurel suddenly being reassigned. Given Corps infiltration of higher levels of EarthGov, they could have easily influenced the report outcome, getting Laurel reassigned to the Rim to keep her out of harm's reach and not exposing their Sleeper programme. Without any eyes and ears in the B5 command structure, putting someone in that could get close to but not actually within said command structure would be their next best bet.

Looney November 10th 17 16:40

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by b5historyman (Post 459740)
Talia's assignment I suspect was in part due to the investigation into the attack on Kosh and Laurel suddenly being reassigned. Given Corps infiltration of higher levels of EarthGov, they could have easily influenced the report outcome, getting Laurel reassigned to the Rim to keep her out of harm's reach and not exposing their Sleeper programme. Without any eyes and ears in the B5 command structure, putting someone in that could get close to but not actually within said command structure would be their next best bet.

Definitely agree with all of that. Talia is close, but not too close. And in the episode where the Sleeper is discovered it became a matter of her being close, being someone who was cared for, and maybe being too obvious to be suspected. ;)

Looney November 14th 17 16:24

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Okay time for another installment.....

In the midst of Lyta’s arrival we are introduced to G’Kar through his complaint to Takashima. Reading Between The Lines of this interaction we learn of the Narn and a bit about G’Kar. It is great how this is all connected to the assassin trying to gain access to B5, but it also exposes something else. G’Kar says the Narn are “dedicated to peace.” and Takashima points out that there are reports of Narn aggression against some “fringe” worlds. This dialogue establishes that G’Kar is playing a propaganda game while his government is starting to be aggressive. I think this is a point that should not be missed and closely ties The Gathering to Midnight on The Firing Line. If a new viewer were to start Babylon 5 with Midnight on The Firing Line the Narn attack on Ragesh 3 plays out like it is out of the blue. You might start the series thinking the Narn are the aggressors of the series or that maybe they really did just want to reclaim Ragesh 3. Having this one little interaction with Takashima in The Gathering we learn there is more. It gels so well with the idea that they would think they could get away with the assault on Ragesh 3 because they have managed other engagements without major repercussions. Viewers learn later in The Gathering that the Centauri conquered the Narn and that the Narn have a hand in the Kosh assassination attempt which creates a layered impression of the Narn when Midnight on The Firing Line begins. Having seen The Gathering one knows that the assault on Ragesh 3 is another movement in a larger Narn campaign as opposed to starting the series with Midnight on The Firing line and thinking Ragesh 3 could just be a standalone incident or attempt to reclaim lost territory.

This is just a point I want people who say The Gathering can be skipped to see. ;)

b5historyman November 15th 17 09:11

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Their actions need to be taken into the wider context of what was happening around them, I touch on it a little here in my notes about Laurel:

Laurel Takashima, was a double agent with an implanted personality, working for the pro Earth Homeguard. It was her that allowed the Minbari assassin into Varner's quarters and erased logs of the transport tube failure. This was being done to disrupt relations with the Vorlons and the Earth Alliance, by framing Sinclair for the assassination attempt and isolating Earth. Working through third parties (Del Varner and the Narn, who saw an opportunity to use a situation to their advantage and forge closer ties with the Vorlons and the Minbari) Homeguard make a deal with the extremist elements in the Wind Swords clan of the Minbari Warrior Caste opposed to the Babylon Project. They would have made an uneasy ally for the Homeguard, but also a readymade scapegoat for their actions, framing the Minbari for the attempt on Kosh’s life, and to hide Laurel’s role.

Looney November 15th 17 14:59

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by b5historyman (Post 459771)
Their actions need to be taken into the wider context of what was happening around them, I touch on it a little here in my notes about Laurel:

Laurel Takashima, was a double agent with an implanted personality, working for the pro Earth Homeguard. It was her that allowed the Minbari assassin into Varner's quarters and erased logs of the transport tube failure. This was being done to disrupt relations with the Vorlons and the Earth Alliance, by framing Sinclair for the assassination attempt and isolating Earth. Working through third parties (Del Varner and the Narn, who saw an opportunity to use a situation to their advantage and forge closer ties with the Vorlons and the Minbari) Homeguard make a deal with the extremist elements in the Wind Swords clan of the Minbari Warrior Caste opposed to the Babylon Project. They would have made an uneasy ally for the Homeguard, but also a readymade scapegoat for their actions, framing the Minbari for the attempt on Kosh’s life, and to hide Laurel’s role.

So was all of this, including her actions in The Gathering, planned to be revealed at some point, had they stayed with the character?

KoshFan November 16th 17 05:06

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
If I recall rightly, wasn't it going to be Laurel who shot Garibaldi in the back? So, I imagine a lot of it would have come out at the end of season 1.

b5historyman November 16th 17 09:04

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 459773)
If I recall rightly, wasn't it going to be Laurel who shot Garibaldi in the back? So, I imagine a lot of it would have come out at the end of season 1.

Yes, Laurel would have revealed as the traitor who shot Garibaldi.

Looney November 16th 17 15:27

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by b5historyman (Post 459774)

Yes, Laurel would have revealed as the traitor who shot Garibaldi.

But would all of the things she did each step of the way, like altering the transport tube's records, have been revealed?

BTW, the way it plays out in the show it doesn't appear she had to give the assassin access to Varner's quarters. When he walks into Varner's quarters Varner doesn't seem surprised to see him. It looks more like they arranged something, so is it just that she arranged for them both to have access to the quarters without making a record of it. I guess my point is that when I read that she arranged for the assassin to have access to his quarters it sounded like you were saying without Varner knowing when in fact you probably just meant without security knowing someone other than Varner had access. And I'll stop rambling right . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . now! :guffaw:

A_M_Swallow November 19th 17 08:34

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Looney (Post 459721)
Okay so I know I have dropped the ball on this for a bit, but I've written a lot and I decided to break it up and do smaller posts, one thing at a time so to speak. Picking up where I left off. I could try to analyze every scene and line of dialogue, but nobody wants that. :rolleyes: I am trying to break it down and just try to mention some interesting observations from my perspective. As The Gathering gets going JMS gives us a taste for how things are working; people and ships are coming and going. There are MANY opportunities for me to Read Between The Lines.

Side Notes – The fact that Lyta needs Sinclair’s personal approval to board the station is interesting. Does anyone know if JMS meant for this to continue with all Telepaths or was this just meant to establish some significance to her coming to B5 in an official capacity?

One scene I love is the exposition of Sinclair walking with Lyta when she arrives in both versions. I understand why some of it was removed for the Special Edition, but despite some effects that people might think look a little silly I think this journey works in both versions. The dialogue seems like blatant exposition Lyta should already know as an “Official Psi Corps Representative”, but I feel the way O’Hare delivers it almost sounds like he is a tour guide who is simultaneously delivering a legal disclaimer. She is the Official Psi Corps Representative and it seems like he is giving her the shtick that the higher-ups require him to deliver before they give her any authority. It is brilliant because he is also telling the audience about the station and how things work as they walk through a critical sector. I don't know if this is exactly "Reading Between The Lines" or just recognition that I feel there is more to what O'Hare is doing than just saying his lines. When I hear his delivery I hear the information, but the way he is saying the words gives me a duel reaction.

On the flip side what doesn’t work so well for me is when Lyta asks “Why Babylon 5?” She is the Official Psi Corps Representative and she did zero research?! I mean you could say that she was possibly busy with training during the time frame the Babylon Station’s construction was in the news, I know I missed a lot of world events when I was in college, but to say she got the assignment and then didn’t look up the info about where she was going seems very off - especially given Babylon 5's high profile. I know it is meant for the audience, but as brilliant as I feel it is when Sinclair is laying out the info to her I feel the opposite when she needs to be told why this is the fifth station. I don't mean Patricia Tallman did anything wrong. I just feel that maybe it was a poor choice to put that bit of exposition at that moment.

So there is a little bit. I know it isn't mind-blowing, but it is compartmentalized. :lol:

One factor to take into account is that Lyta is a telepath - a walking lie detector. Her talent does not allow her to detect lies in videos and written material but she can surface scan the man walking beside her. She would know what the official story (lie?) about the Babylon 4 mystery but not the real story. The commander of Babylon 5 is likely to know what actually happened to Babylon 4. For instance if it was stolen by a powerful race the government could cover this up until Earth Force had built sufficient warships to demand it back.

b5historyman November 20th 17 12:03

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Looney (Post 459775)
Quote:

Originally Posted by b5historyman (Post 459774)

Yes, Laurel would have revealed as the traitor who shot Garibaldi.

But would all of the things she did each step of the way, like altering the transport tube's records, have been revealed?

BTW, the way it plays out in the show it doesn't appear she had to give the assassin access to Varner's quarters. When he walks into Varner's quarters Varner doesn't seem surprised to see him. It looks more like they arranged something, so is it just that she arranged for them both to have access to the quarters without making a record of it. I guess my point is that when I read that she arranged for the assassin to have access to his quarters it sounded like you were saying without Varner knowing when in fact you probably just meant without security knowing someone other than Varner had access. And I'll stop rambling right . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . now! :guffaw:

Well I did point out in post above about third parties being involved. So it may not have come as a surprise to Varner that the assassin came to his quarters and cleared for access by Laurel. Remember the Minbari missed his rendezvous with Varner. Laurel was in on it so knew who the assassin would be and needed to propel the assassination forward.

Looney November 21st 17 18:17

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by A_M_Swallow (Post 459790)
One factor to take into account is that Lyta is a telepath - a walking lie detector. Her talent does not allow her to detect lies in videos and written material but she can surface scan the man walking beside her. She would know what the official story (lie?) about the Babylon 4 mystery but not the real story. The commander of Babylon 5 is likely to know what actually happened to Babylon 4. For instance if it was stolen by a powerful race the government could cover this up until Earth Force had built sufficient warships to demand it back.

So you think she asked "Why Babylon 5?" in an attempt to see if she could detect if he knew the truth about what happened to Babylon 4? That is an interesting theory that I don't think is true, but it is an interesting theory. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by b5historyman (Post 459797)

Well I did point out in post above about third parties being involved. So it may not have come as a surprise to Varner that the assassin came to his quarters and cleared for access by Laurel. Remember the Minbari missed his rendezvous with Varner. Laurel was in on it so knew who the assassin would be and needed to propel the assassination forward.

Yeah I realized all that. I think what I really want to know is how much would have been revealed when Takashima's alternate personality was exposed had she continued on the show? Would we have been told she altered the logs and the lift and every little detail or would we have just been expected to assume the chain of logic that the alter ego had done every unexplained bad thing in the show to the point when the hidden persona was exposed?


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