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-   -   Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=45847)

b5historyman November 7th 17 11:50

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
I think it's to do with Psi Corps not being interested in the affairs of Mundanes unless it impacts on them. Lyta was working for Xenocorp from 2247-2257 so to be generous, she could have been out of Earth Alliance territory for all those years.

Looney November 8th 17 21:29

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by b5historyman (Post 459724)
I think it's to do with Psi Corps not being interested in the affairs of Mundanes unless it impacts on them. Lyta was working for Xenocorp from 2247-2257 so to be generous, she could have been out of Earth Alliance territory for all those years.

See that is interesting because I have always wondered why Lyta was sent to Babylon 5. When looking at the situation I have always thought that Psi Corps would be VERY interested in Babylon 5 and therefore the representative they would send would be very important; a point eventually proven by what happens with Talia Winters. Babylon 5 represented a place where Telepaths from other races could come into contact with Earthforce personnel as well as be in close proximity to Earth representatives and business people. I've always thought it a bit strange that Psi Corps didn't have a larger presence on B5 than we were shown. Of course we know they had people everywhere, but in The Gathering it appears from the audience perspective that Lyta is set up to be an average representative until she is asked to help in the Kosh situation. It is only through events that unfold as the episodes move forward that it appears Psi Corps takes an interest in B5 until Talia's sleeper personality is awakened. We learn that Psi Corps thought enough of B5 to have gone through the trouble to plant Talia there. Anyway, point being is yes it is very possible Lyta missed the Babylon Project construction news cycle, but isn't it odd that Psi Corps would send a Telepath whom appears to quite average to Babylon 5 initially only to replace her with a Telepath that they have implanted with an alternate personality? One could say the Kosh incident made them take notice, but shouldn't they have thought enough of B5 from the reasons I've mentioned to send more than just a P5? ;)

b5historyman November 9th 17 12:41

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
It has to be said that Londo's narration is part of his conversation with Vir in The Legions of Fire: Out of the Darkness. So from the story point of view this is between Londo getting drunk after speaking to Luc and Lyssa and before he has Delenn and Sheridan brought to him

vorlonlovechild November 10th 17 09:49

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
It's a good pilot for a great series. Such a shame O'Hare didn't finish what he started due to illness.

b5historyman November 10th 17 11:50

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Looney (Post 459729)
Quote:

Originally Posted by b5historyman (Post 459724)
I think it's to do with Psi Corps not being interested in the affairs of Mundanes unless it impacts on them. Lyta was working for Xenocorp from 2247-2257 so to be generous, she could have been out of Earth Alliance territory for all those years.

See that is interesting because I have always wondered why Lyta was sent to Babylon 5. When looking at the situation I have always thought that Psi Corps would be VERY interested in Babylon 5 and therefore the representative they would send would be very important; a point eventually proven by what happens with Talia Winters. Babylon 5 represented a place where Telepaths from other races could come into contact with Earthforce personnel as well as be in close proximity to Earth representatives and business people. I've always thought it a bit strange that Psi Corps didn't have a larger presence on B5 than we were shown. Of course we know they had people everywhere, but in The Gathering it appears from the audience perspective that Lyta is set up to be an average representative until she is asked to help in the Kosh situation. It is only through events that unfold as the episodes move forward that it appears Psi Corps takes an interest in B5 until Talia's sleeper personality is awakened. We learn that Psi Corps thought enough of B5 to have gone through the trouble to plant Talia there. Anyway, point being is yes it is very possible Lyta missed the Babylon Project construction news cycle, but isn't it odd that Psi Corps would send a Telepath whom appears to quite average to Babylon 5 initially only to replace her with a Telepath that they have implanted with an alternate personality? One could say the Kosh incident made them take notice, but shouldn't they have thought enough of B5 from the reasons I've mentioned to send more than just a P5? ;)

Well the Corps called her back to Earth later on to find out what happened and she was a prisoner until escaping through the undeground. Sure as hell would have raised red flags with them, one of their number had physical contact with a Vorlon.

Talia's assignment I suspect was in part due to the investigation into the attack on Kosh and Laurel suddenly being reassigned. Given Corps infiltration of higher levels of EarthGov, they could have easily influenced the report outcome, getting Laurel reassigned to the Rim to keep her out of harm's reach and not exposing their Sleeper programme. Without any eyes and ears in the B5 command structure, putting someone in that could get close to but not actually within said command structure would be their next best bet.

Looney November 10th 17 16:40

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by b5historyman (Post 459740)
Talia's assignment I suspect was in part due to the investigation into the attack on Kosh and Laurel suddenly being reassigned. Given Corps infiltration of higher levels of EarthGov, they could have easily influenced the report outcome, getting Laurel reassigned to the Rim to keep her out of harm's reach and not exposing their Sleeper programme. Without any eyes and ears in the B5 command structure, putting someone in that could get close to but not actually within said command structure would be their next best bet.

Definitely agree with all of that. Talia is close, but not too close. And in the episode where the Sleeper is discovered it became a matter of her being close, being someone who was cared for, and maybe being too obvious to be suspected. ;)

Looney November 14th 17 16:24

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Okay time for another installment.....

In the midst of Lyta’s arrival we are introduced to G’Kar through his complaint to Takashima. Reading Between The Lines of this interaction we learn of the Narn and a bit about G’Kar. It is great how this is all connected to the assassin trying to gain access to B5, but it also exposes something else. G’Kar says the Narn are “dedicated to peace.” and Takashima points out that there are reports of Narn aggression against some “fringe” worlds. This dialogue establishes that G’Kar is playing a propaganda game while his government is starting to be aggressive. I think this is a point that should not be missed and closely ties The Gathering to Midnight on The Firing Line. If a new viewer were to start Babylon 5 with Midnight on The Firing Line the Narn attack on Ragesh 3 plays out like it is out of the blue. You might start the series thinking the Narn are the aggressors of the series or that maybe they really did just want to reclaim Ragesh 3. Having this one little interaction with Takashima in The Gathering we learn there is more. It gels so well with the idea that they would think they could get away with the assault on Ragesh 3 because they have managed other engagements without major repercussions. Viewers learn later in The Gathering that the Centauri conquered the Narn and that the Narn have a hand in the Kosh assassination attempt which creates a layered impression of the Narn when Midnight on The Firing Line begins. Having seen The Gathering one knows that the assault on Ragesh 3 is another movement in a larger Narn campaign as opposed to starting the series with Midnight on The Firing line and thinking Ragesh 3 could just be a standalone incident or attempt to reclaim lost territory.

This is just a point I want people who say The Gathering can be skipped to see. ;)

b5historyman November 15th 17 09:11

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Their actions need to be taken into the wider context of what was happening around them, I touch on it a little here in my notes about Laurel:

Laurel Takashima, was a double agent with an implanted personality, working for the pro Earth Homeguard. It was her that allowed the Minbari assassin into Varner's quarters and erased logs of the transport tube failure. This was being done to disrupt relations with the Vorlons and the Earth Alliance, by framing Sinclair for the assassination attempt and isolating Earth. Working through third parties (Del Varner and the Narn, who saw an opportunity to use a situation to their advantage and forge closer ties with the Vorlons and the Minbari) Homeguard make a deal with the extremist elements in the Wind Swords clan of the Minbari Warrior Caste opposed to the Babylon Project. They would have made an uneasy ally for the Homeguard, but also a readymade scapegoat for their actions, framing the Minbari for the attempt on Kosh’s life, and to hide Laurel’s role.

Looney November 15th 17 14:59

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by b5historyman (Post 459771)
Their actions need to be taken into the wider context of what was happening around them, I touch on it a little here in my notes about Laurel:

Laurel Takashima, was a double agent with an implanted personality, working for the pro Earth Homeguard. It was her that allowed the Minbari assassin into Varner's quarters and erased logs of the transport tube failure. This was being done to disrupt relations with the Vorlons and the Earth Alliance, by framing Sinclair for the assassination attempt and isolating Earth. Working through third parties (Del Varner and the Narn, who saw an opportunity to use a situation to their advantage and forge closer ties with the Vorlons and the Minbari) Homeguard make a deal with the extremist elements in the Wind Swords clan of the Minbari Warrior Caste opposed to the Babylon Project. They would have made an uneasy ally for the Homeguard, but also a readymade scapegoat for their actions, framing the Minbari for the attempt on Kosh’s life, and to hide Laurel’s role.

So was all of this, including her actions in The Gathering, planned to be revealed at some point, had they stayed with the character?

KoshFan November 16th 17 05:06

Re: Reading Between The Lines - The Gathering
 
If I recall rightly, wasn't it going to be Laurel who shot Garibaldi in the back? So, I imagine a lot of it would have come out at the end of season 1.


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