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-   -   Is it time to go beyond the rim? (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=45815)

Looney June 13th 17 05:24

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Psi Cop (Post 458456)
Re re-boot I'll believe it when I see it. IMHO Kevin Spacey would make a good Bester. :thumbsup:

Oh yes. I think Spacey would LOVE the show if he watched it all the way through to research Bester. I think he would LOVE Bester and the character would get more of the recognition he deserves for being one of the best villains of all time. I don't think people realize that television had very few, if any, villains on the level of Bester before Bester. What I mean by that is that having watched A LOT of television I think I can safely say that there are few villains in TV history prior to Bester that were as multi-layered and complex as Bester. Also in the way Bester was used in the show. One episode he is the evil scoundrel; the next episode he is the evil scoundrel the heroes have to work with; the next episode he is the evil scoundrel who is actually doing something good and all the while he thinks he is the hero. It is an amazing thing to watch. :) I only wish we had seen more of him back then. :(

Demonn June 13th 17 05:28

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
I think Zachary Quinto would also make a lovely Bester... Sylar 2.0. :D

Looney June 13th 17 21:30

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Demonn (Post 458475)
I think Zachary Quinto would also make a lovely Bester... Sylar 2.0. :D

I think Quinto would make a different Bester just from the stand point of age. Quinto is at an age where he can still play naive. He can also play someone with a certain maturity, but there is still a chance for him to seem naive. I think Spacey, like Koenig, brings an automatic level of maturity. What I mean is that you could look at Quinto as Bester and say that he is at an age where his actions, thoughts, and perceptions might be being manipulated. When you see Spacey or Koenig you know that if they have been manipulated that it has taken firm root and become who they are and that they are less likely to change or that they know more of what they are doing and they have obviously accepted it. Seeing someone Quinto's age might make an audience feel they could still be changed or have a change of heart. I don't know if any of this makes sense, but I hope you get my meaning. I know Quinto isn't particularly young, but he appears physically younger by comparison.

Demonn June 14th 17 07:27

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
If B5 would ever get a big budget movie I would want a younger cast (not too young though)... then there's a higher probability of a sequel or some other form of continuation. Bester could be portrayed by someone of any age because he's just a teep/psi cop, no job experience required, he was born/will live/and most likely die one day for or because of the corps.

A younger Sheridan and or Sinclair would be awesome... Do a Dilgar War movie. Establish some new EA officer/characters, they could have the remaining cast members from B5 play older/high up people in the Earth Alliance/Minbari Federation/Narn Regime/& Centauri Republic... then get the Mibari war going. Younger Delenn, G'Kar, Mollari, Sheridan, Sinclair, Garibaldi, Franklin, Ivanov, Ivanova (make 'em twins, and put them in Sinclair's squadron. They could be freakin high school freshman tapped for military service.) Initially establish the Minbari as the bad guys, show how desperate the Earth/Mibari war was. No hope, kill half the cast... and then have Sinclair smash his fighter into a Minbari ship, half kill him, scar him up, get Valen some war scars... start this beautiful B5 rebirth off right. Hell, you could even merge Sheridan AND Sinclair into one character.

Then redo the show. Feel free to recast whoever since there will be a time gap as B1 through B4 are built and lost. Give us a 10 season story arc this time.

Demonn June 14th 17 15:30

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
Mix it up a bit. Bruce Boxleitner as Dukhat (edit) or Lenonn... Mira Furlan as the female Earth Alliance President.

hypatia June 14th 17 15:31

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
A reboot would be great, the Babylon 5 story in general is very much a story of today's times. The biggest problem I see is that we have no originality in our entertainment anymore. Most of what I watch is BBCA or House of Cards (the only Netflix show I actually watch now that Sense8 is cancelled). More of Star Trek, Aliens/Prometheus, and comic book adaptations is all I fear our movie market will consider.

Maybe JMS should make a pitch to the BBC to make a Canadian production. :) Orphan Black is definitely original. And Mr. Robot was taking a huge chance, but USA was willing to take a chance on a basically cerebral story. I'm not even sure who is real on that show. :) Now THAT's good science fiction. :cool:

Demonn June 14th 17 18:30

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
Have the last of the Dilgar (Deathwalker & friends) join the Shadows.

Introduce G'Kar as a pirate/smuggler. The Narn Regime supplied us with Centauri weapons yes, but go two further and have G'Kar selling/supplying us weapons on his own. Make him a popular Resistance fighter among the Narn who scrapped together his own ship and does what he wants. He could either join in the battle of the line (with the EA) or he could be smuggling people off world while the battle rages. He could have either motivation for helping, profit, or just because it's right. His ship could be just a little thing with a 2 or three person crew. Get him a bodyguard and maybe a pilot.

He could then be named ambassador to B5.

Later on in the show you could have him smuggling Narns off the homeworld and then sneeking back to B5.

Have a worldwide draft on Earth to fight the Minbari... establish that even though they cut through Human ships like butter it is possible to combat them with fighters. Weapons don't lock on to their ships but manual targeting works just fine, all starfuries are loaded to the max with rockets. Turn it into a human fighter vs minbari capital ship war.

Sinclair/Sheridan could become Star-Killer at the battle of the line when he flies into the Minbari flagship.

Then the Minbari surrender.

LondosHair June 18th 17 02:24

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
Quote:

What changed your mind about a reboot?
I've tried introducing B5 to many of my younger friends and friends' kids who have reached their teenage years, and none of them took. They like Doctor Who, the new Battlestar, DS9, and other new sci-fi, but they don't like early TNG or B5. Too "staged," they say. Too theatrical. The CGI is "corny" or "low budget," which we all know it wasn't at the time.

Is it still my favorite sci-fi of all time? Absolutely. But I grew up with it at the age most of them are now. I suffered through the months between seasons and the uncertainty of each following season even airing at all. B5 was a game-changer as far as CGI, plot and character development goes.

I am absolutely in support of a reboot, with JMS having full creative control. There were some things Ron Moore did with BSG that I thought weren't necessary. I would want JMS to have that control without having to write all of the scripts, which damn near killed him the first time. JMS is B5's Roddenberry, just not as kooky. :)

RW - good to see you too!

vacantlook June 20th 17 21:20

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
I don't know if it would impact us here, but there's a guy named Mark Oshiro who, due to a strict upbringing, did not watch a lot of shows growing up that many of us have. He's currently finishing up the various Star Trek series (he just recently started Enterprise.

He tweeted out his plans for after Star Trek. He's first going to do a palate cleanser and watch the 5 seasons of Alias and the first season of Yuri On Ice. And then... Babylon 5.

Given that he won't be through with Star Trek until November and will be doing several seasons of other shows before getting around to B5, it might not be until this time next year that he finally starts, but it's often interesting to see his thoughts on shows. I read along when he did the Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel series several years ago; I found out about this guy when someone had posted on another forum about his having watched and commented on Avatar The Last Airbender. It's always fun to follow with someone when they watch a show I like for the first time, so I'm excited he's going to do B5, even if it's some time away.

Oh, I forgot, folks might want a link to his website where he posts his reviews: markwatches.net

hypatia June 22nd 17 04:20

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
It really is good to see new fans coming to a show that hasn't been given decent exposure in decades. :cool::bolian:

Looney June 22nd 17 06:48

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hypatia (Post 458590)
It really is good to see new fans coming to a show that hasn't been given decent exposure in decades. :cool::bolian:

I just wish it would happen at a quicker pace. We need hype to get JMS more clout so he can do something with the franchise. :thumbsup:

I just wish WB would give it up already. There should be some legal action taken. It isn't right that they can just sit on it. It is his intellectual property. They financed the show twenty years ago. If they aren't interested in financing anything else they should not be legally allowed to control it. It is just another example how in this country the term legal does not mean just. [Soap Box Moment!] :cool:

Kraig June 22nd 17 17:33

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vacantlook (Post 458583)
I don't know if it would impact us here, but there's a guy named Mark Oshiro who, due to a strict upbringing, did not watch a lot of shows growing up that many of us have. He's currently finishing up the various Star Trek series (he just recently started Enterprise.

He tweeted out his plans for after Star Trek. He's first going to do a palate cleanser and watch the 5 seasons of Alias and the first season of Yuri On Ice. And then... Babylon 5.

Given that he won't be through with Star Trek until November and will be doing several seasons of other shows before getting around to B5, it might not be until this time next year that he finally starts, but it's often interesting to see his thoughts on shows. I read along when he did the Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel series several years ago; I found out about this guy when someone had posted on another forum about his having watched and commented on Avatar The Last Airbender. It's always fun to follow with someone when they watch a show I like for the first time, so I'm excited he's going to do B5, even if it's some time away.

Oh, I forgot, folks might want a link to his website where he posts his reviews: markwatches.net

There is always Katie on You Tube. She binge watched several episodes for the first time about 3 years ago and reported her thoughts.

Then JMS binge watched Katie.

The wheel turns, does it not....? :D

Looney June 23rd 17 03:02

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
Yes I am very familiar with Katie. I have thought of doing something similar with a friend of mine, but I don't think we could live up to what Katie captured. :)

Jan June 23rd 17 13:02

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Looney (Post 458594)
I just wish WB would give it up already. There should be some legal action taken. It isn't right that they can just sit on it. It is his intellectual property. They financed the show twenty years ago. If they aren't interested in financing anything else they should not be legally allowed to control it. It is just another example how in this country the term legal does not mean just. [Soap Box Moment!] :cool:

There's really nothing unjust about it. It's not JMS intellectual property because he sold it. It's WBs IP and theirs to do with - or not do with - as they like. And whether you like it or not, it's really perfectly just. How would you like it if somebody sold you a chair and then wanted to be able to take it back because they felt you didn't sit in it enough? (reverse soap box moment - been through this conversation recently with too many Sense8 fans)

Looney June 23rd 17 17:34

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan (Post 458610)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Looney (Post 458594)
I just wish WB would give it up already. There should be some legal action taken. It isn't right that they can just sit on it. It is his intellectual property. They financed the show twenty years ago. If they aren't interested in financing anything else they should not be legally allowed to control it. It is just another example how in this country the term legal does not mean just. [Soap Box Moment!] :cool:

There's really nothing unjust about it. It's not JMS intellectual property because he sold it. It's WBs IP and theirs to do with - or not do with - as they like. And whether you like it or not, it's really perfectly just. How would you like it if somebody sold you a chair and then wanted to be able to take it back because they felt you didn't sit in it enough? (reverse soap box moment - been through this conversation recently with too many Sense8 fans)

(OH JAN I have got you on that last sentence. ;) I know now that you are weakened from discussions with Sense 8 fans, however, I feel that at this juncture the arguments are different because what happened with Sense 8 is too recent.)

I whole-heartedly disagree with your comments. Let me first say that I wrote those statements in haste. I should not have said there should be "legal action." What I should have said is that "in a JUST world there should be legal action." In Looney's ramblings Looney was not clear where Looney was coming from. :wtf: :rolleyes:

The reality is WB is a corporation who had NOTHING to do with the intellectual creation of Babylon 5. They gave JMS the power make the show strictly to reap the profits from what HE and HIS TEAM created. He sold them the rights because it is the only way to get things done in that business because as a corporation, or mafia type organization, they won't give you the funding unless you are making it for them to have the profits forever. (And don't get me wrong. I am not saying JMS didn't make money.) There is nothing just about that structure, but it has been deemed legal thanks in part to people who have corrupted the legal system.

WB is not a person with feelings. They are a money machine that thrives on profits and control. I don't think you can compare what I would feel vs what a corporation does about controlling assets they don't deserve to, but thanks to legal reality do, have control over. Since you wanted me to ask myself a comparison question here is a better breakdown of what you suggested in this instance. JMS wanted to build a chair after he had drawn up the plans. He didn't have the funds for the tools to build his chair. The only way to get those funds for those tools was follow rules setup up by the corporations who controlled those tools. These rules stipulated that you couldn't just borrow the funds to build your chair you had to sell the corporation the chair so it was their chair to reap all of the profits that chair could yield. What about that system sounds just? What about that system doesn't actually sound a little criminal? If I want to write a play, but I can't afford paper I go to a bank. I take out a loan to buy paper. Should the bank own the play after they have been paid back what I borrowed plus a hefty profit as interest? The WB isn't a bank, but they have setup a system like a bank only they keep everything.

I understand that in the current legal reality of our society it is deemed that they own it, but my brain can't comprehend that as justice in this situation. What is just is that they not be allowed to sit on HIS intellectual property because they gave him the money to create something with it more than twenty years ago. If he wants to create more then they should not be allowed to stop him after such a long time and after likely making back far more than they ever gave him. If anything they are currently stymieing the creative process of this intellectual property. Having said that I am 100% behind them if they want to partner with him on future projects. If not then justice would mean they can't just sit on it forever and do nothing with it. At a minimum they should sell the rights back to him so he can proceed as he sees fit. He can even cut them in on some of the profits.

Having said all of this I would like to say that I am grateful to them for originally financing the show, but I can't help but feel the show might have been FAR better off if JMS had been lucky enough to join forces with a different studio. I know that it actually is a case of perfect timing in this instance. If WB hadn't been trying to go forward on the PTEN front we might not have gotten B5 when we got it, if ever, but I think we all know where I am coming from. It is all "Ifs and Buts" and wow have I wasted a lot of time on this. :guffaw:

Love you Jan! Thanks for sparking my outburst! :thumbsup: Can't wait to hear you shoot me down and explain that we live in that legal reality that I was bashing and no matter how hard I try to talk outside it nothing will change. I can't wait to hear you tell me that I can't keep living in a fairy tale land where WB has GIVEN JMS back all rights to Babylon 5 along with two hundred million dollars to do with as he sees fit . . . and an apology. :lol:

(I REALLY hope you like that last bit. It is comedy gold to me.) :guffaw:

P.S. Jan, you don't actually need to respond. You know me and you know I know I am living in a dream world (A DREAM WORLD THAT IS HOW REALITY SHOULD BE) and not the reality of this situation. I don't need you to explain it all to me like you've had to with the Sense 8 fans. This ain't my first rodeo. We both know that there is some logic to what I said, but we also both know I am crazy and sometimes I need to let the crazy out there into the world. :scream: (That doesn't mean everything I said is wrong. It just means that it comes from idealistic fantasy thinking.)

Jan June 23rd 17 22:05

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
Dream on, Looney, dream on. I'll simply say that just because somebody created an intellectual property, it doesn't remain theirs once it's sold.

But you know...if I wanted to really throw you off, I could mention that in ways that matter, WB didn't 'finance' the show at all. The stations that signed on to PTEN did. WB just *bought* the show and made it available.

Just sayin'.... :p

Looney June 23rd 17 22:39

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan (Post 458615)
But you know...if I wanted to really throw you off, I could mention that in ways that matter, WB didn't 'finance' the show at all. The stations that signed on to PTEN did. WB just *bought* the show and made it available.

Just sayin'.... :p

OMG that is sooooo true. WHERE IS THE JUSTICE IN THIS ?! ?! ?! ?! ?! :scream: :scream: :scream:

I think I am most upset at the fact that I didn't bring up that point. Jan just bested me at my own game that I created in my warped little mind. :guffaw: :lol: :guffaw:

;)

Markas June 24th 17 04:04

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
I'm very much enjoying the conversation that has ensued since my "pull the plug?" post.

Officially speaking, I don't think we're in danger of the death knell just now. Keep gadding about the place and I'll keep our big boss off our backs. ;)

So nice to see some of the old-timers here. I feel like the rim has set them loose. :)

Sinclair June 25th 17 21:21

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
Old timers eh? Haha! It is great to see so many from the beginning, or close to it.

"Hell, I'll probably still be here when they turn out the lights!"

Looney June 26th 17 02:54

Re: Is it time to go beyond the rim?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinclair (Post 458652)
Old timers eh? Haha! It is great to see so many from the beginning, or close to it.

"Hell, I'll probably still be here when they turn out the lights!"

I wish I could claim to be new blood, but I feel like I have been around forever! :lol:

I just also wanted to say once again how awesome it is to be able to talk B5 while having B5 open in another tab playing on Go90. Friggin Sweet! :thumbsup:


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