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-   -   What order to see it all in? (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=11668)

Holmelund September 4th 09 15:34

What order to see it all in?
 
Hello.

I am pretty new to the B5 univers and recently got a huge box taht includes all the B5 material.

To avoid confusion i would like to see it in the right order.
So far I have seen season 1-4 and is about to begin on Season5.

That leaves me with:
Crusade.
The movie collection: Thirdspace, River of Souls and A call to arms.
In the beginning
The Gathering
The lost Tales
The Legend of the rangers.

What order shall I see the rest in to get the best viewer exsperience.

Thanks in advance :)

KoshFan September 4th 09 15:59

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
KoshN will provide you with his master list shortly. It's as good as any; there are some slight differences of opinion over what could go where but generally speaking there's a good order.

KoshN September 4th 09 22:58

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 349847)
KoshN will provide you with his master list shortly. It's as good as any; there are some slight differences of opinion over what could go where but generally speaking there's a good order.

Sheesh! Do I have to do everything? :rolleyes: ;) :D

The Gathering (pilot) [2257]

Season One ("Signs and Portents") [2258]
Midnight on the Firing Line
Soul Hunter
Born to the Purple
Infection
The Parliament of Dreams
Mind War
The War Prayer
And The Sky Full Of Stars
Deathwalker
Believers
Survivors
By Any Means Necessary
Signs and Portents
Grail
Eyes
A Voice in the Wilderness - Part 1
A Voice in the Wilderness - Part 2
Babylon Squared
The Quality of Mercy
TKO
Legacies
Chrysalis


Season Two ("The Coming Of Shadows") [2259]
Points of Departure
Revelations
The Geometry of Shadows
A Distant Star
The Long Dark
A Spider in the Web
A Race Through Dark Places
Soul Mates
The Coming of Shadows
GROPOS
All Alone in the Night
Acts of Sacrifice
Hunter, Prey
There All the Honor Lies
And Now For a Word
Knives
In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum
Confessions and Lamentations
Divided Loyalties
The Long, Twilight Struggle
Comes the Inquisitor
The Fall of Night

Season Three ("Point of No Return") [2260]
Matters of Honor
Convictions
A Day in the Strife
Passing Through Gethsemane
Voices of Authority
(This was originally meant to air before "Passing Through Gethsemane," but since the events of this episode tie into the beginning of "Dust to Dust," and aren't mentioned at all in "Gethsemane," the initial airing order is actually an improvement.)
Dust to Dust
Exogenesis
Messages from Earth
Point of No Return
Severed Dreams
Ceremonies of Light and Dark
A Late Delivery From Avalon
Sic Transit Vir
Ship of Tears
Interludes and Examinations
Walkabout
War Without End, Part One
War Without End, Part Two
Grey 17 Is Missing
And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place
Shadow Dancing
Z'ha'dum


Season Four ("No Surrender, No Retreat") [2261]
The Hour of the Wolf
Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?
The Summoning
Falling Toward Apotheosis
The Long Night
Into the Fire
Epiphanies
The Illusion of Truth
Thirdspace (TV Movie) [obviously in 2261]
Atonement
Racing Mars
Lines of Communication
Conflicts of Interest
Rumors, Bargains and Lies
Moments of Transition
No Surrender, No Retreat
The Exercise of Vital Powers
The Face of the Enemy
Intersections in Real Time
Between the Darkness and the Light
Endgame
Rising Star
The Deconstruction of Falling Stars

Season Five - ("Wheel of Fire") [2262]
No Compromises
The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari
The Paragon of Animals
A View from the Gallery
Learning Curve
Strange Relations
Secrets of the Soul
In the Kingdom of the Blind
A Tragedy of Telepaths
Phoenix Rising
The Ragged Edge
Day of the Dead
The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father
Meditations on the Abyss
Darkness Ascending
And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder
Movements of Fire and Shadow
The Fall of Centauri Prime
Wheel of Fire
Objects in Motion
Objects at Rest

If this is your first time watching “Babylon 5”, jump from “Objects at Rest” straight to “Sleeping in Light”, and watch “River of Souls” thru “In the Beginning” after “Sleeping in Light”.

River of Souls (TV Movie) [2263]


The Legend of the Rangers [pilot movie, late 2265] "just under 3 years after the events of 'Objects at Rest.'" This means it will be set in late 2265]


A Call to Arms (TV Movie) [~mid-to-late December 2266-early January 2267]


Crusade [January 2267 - Fall 2267; January 2267 - December 2271 was planned]
This ordering, which JMS specified, ignores the uniform change in favor of maintaining continuity of storyline, except that I moved War Zone to position 1. Crusade only got 13 episodes because it was cancelled by TNT. There is no possible perfect viewing order for Crusade. TNT saw to that. :mad:

War Zone (chronologically takes place immediately after "A Call to Arms.")
Racing the Night
The Needs of Earth
The Memory of War
The Long Road
Visitors from Down the Street
The Well of Forever
Each Night I Dream of Home
Patterns of the Soul
The Path of Sorrows
Ruling from the Tomb
The Rules of the Game
Appearances and Other Deceits



Babylon 5 - The Lost Tales - Voices in the Dark (Direct-to-DVD, #1 of 1) [2271]
Over Here
Over There (contains a flashforward to a possible 2301.)


In the Beginning (TV Movie) [told in 2278, about the events of 2245-2248]



Sleeping in Light [2281].

Jan September 5th 09 01:08

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
And here's where I chime in (as usual) and implore a new viewer to NOT, repeat NOT, separate "Objects at Rest" and "Sleeping in Light" by anydamnthing. Subsequent viewings, fine, go for strict chronological order but for a first time, the proper emotional impact needs those episodes to follow one to the other.

Jan

KoshN September 5th 09 01:34

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan (Post 349850)
And here's where I chime in (as usual) and implore a new viewer to NOT, repeat NOT, separate "Objects at Rest" and "Sleeping in Light" by anydamnthing. Subsequent viewings, fine, go for strict chronological order but for a first time, the proper emotional impact needs those episodes to follow one to the other.

Jan

Alright, I see your point. It's hard for me to put myself in the shoes of a newbie. "Objects at Rest" and "Sleeping in Light" both have a lot of emotional impact and it's a good idea not to separate them in a first viewing. In fact, on the first run through, I'd watch 'em back to back.

KoshFan September 5th 09 07:37

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 349849)

Sheesh! Do I have to do everything? :rolleyes: ;) :D

I figured you've got the list tucked away and just cut and paste every time the subject comes up...

B5_Obsessed September 5th 09 19:47

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Although that list is chronologically correct, I still prefer to keep the show and the movies separate. "Thirdpace" is so big, I find it hard to drop it in there between "The Illusion of Truth" and "Atonement". I think it's best viewed separately as a popcorn style flick rather than breaking up the escalating drama of Season 4 by inserting it there.

And I certainly wouldn't sit through 20 or so hours of often inferior material before getting my closure with "Sleeping in Light"

KoshN September 5th 09 23:34

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 349862)
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 349849)

Sheesh! Do I have to do everything? :rolleyes: ;) :D

I figured you've got the list tucked away and just cut and paste every time the subject comes up...

I do. I was just busting on ya.

We really should have a FAQ area here. For example:

Babylon 5, Crusade and Rangers
--B5 world
--B5 related
--B5 personnel
--B5 FAQ

That'd prevent the repetition taking up more space every time I cut & paste a list into a thread. Instead, I could just refer to it. There could have one for the viewing order, one for the B5 novel info. (e.g. ISBN, etc.), a detailed one for Crusade order (TNT Order, JMS/SciFi Order, and mine with and without Uniform continuity), and another for B5 novel notes.

I'll ask Antony.

KoshFan September 6th 09 00:06

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Good idea, we do get a lot of newbies coming through these days... as a backup you could just create a "viewing order" thread and make it a sticky.

KoshN September 6th 09 01:19

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 349894)
Good idea, we do get a lot of newbies coming through these days... as a backup you could just create a "viewing order" thread and make it a sticky.

The nice thing about a FAQ area is that it all B5 FAQs would be in one uncrowded area, and we wouldn't be polluting other groups with extra stickies. All B5 FAQs would be in the same place. I think it makes sense.

blackcoatcowboy September 10th 09 00:43

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
...DELETED DUE TO LACK OF AGREEMENT TO ADHERE TO STRICT CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER...

KoshFan September 10th 09 16:42

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Well, different strokes for different folks -- but I've gotta say Heck No to putting "In the Beginning"... well, in the beginning. Not only will it not quite make sense -- characters like Sinclair and Franklin get tossed in with no introduction because we're supposed to already know who they are and what they did -- its great strength is that it's all flashback.

I gather you're going for strict chronological order if you're putting "Deconstruction" last... but alas, that simply doesn't work with this show. I mean, "War Without End" alone messes all that up.

blackcoatcowboy September 10th 09 21:55

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Actually, it does make perfect sense and does fit. Im not sure how you unable to see it but everyone is entitled to a-pinions.


Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 350058)
I gather you're going for strict chronological order if you're putting "Deconstruction" last... but alas, that simply doesn't work with this show. I mean, "War Without End" alone messes all that up.


Sindatur September 10th 09 22:10

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blackcoatcowboy (Post 350072)
Actually, it does make perfect sense and does fit. Im not sure how you unable to see it but everyone is entitled to a-pinions.


Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 350058)
I gather you're going for strict chronological order if you're putting "Deconstruction" last... but alas, that simply doesn't work with this show. I mean, "War Without End" alone messes all that up.


One joy of watching "Deconstuction..." in it's original airing spot is that you get the foreshadowing for the Telepath Revolution on B5. IMHO, this is important for the new viewer (and afterall, if someone is asking for the "proper viewing order", they're likely either someone new to the series, or someone watching it straight through for the first time). The reverse is true for in the Beginning being shown before War Without End, it won't make much sense to a new viewer, but, they'll remember enough that it will dampen their surprise when viewing War Without End. For us old hats, that have seen it straight through a few times, these little things don't matter, and we may indeed find new joys by watching them in their chronological order.

blackcoatcowboy September 10th 09 22:51

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
History and real-life doesnt make sense. The introduction of people without intros are quite common.

It seems people arent old enough to remember the interviews JMS gave in 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2000 regarding being canceled, being cancel a second time, casting, and viewing order. Its been made quite clear how he wants the franchise to be viewed.



Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 350058)
Well, different strokes for different folks -- but I've gotta say Heck No to putting "In the Beginning"... well, in the beginning. Not only will it not quite make sense -- characters like Sinclair and Franklin get tossed in with no introduction because we're supposed to already know who they are and what they did -- its great strength is that it's all flashback.

I gather you're going for strict chronological order if you're putting "Deconstruction" last... but alas, that simply doesn't work with this show. I mean, "War Without End" alone messes all that up.


KoshFan September 11th 09 16:20

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Hah, cowboy, it appears you're right.

From the "JMS Speaks" section of the Lurker's Guide for ItB:

Quote:

Will ItB spoil some of season one's mysteries?
That's an interesting question. When I sat down to write In the Beginning, my feeling was that I should look at the long term. Would the hole in Sinclair's mind be the same mystery it was in season one, or would it be kind of known thereafter? If so, then do you want to play with the mystery, or set up what actually happened? I figured, okay, let's go for the latter...let's let the audience know (which will mostly know by now anyway), and set up the background, with the characters not knowing the first season. I took basic greek tragedy as my model, with ItB functioning more or less as a Greek chorus that sets things up.

If you want to play it as a strict mystery, then no, probably don't go near ItB...but frankly, if I were going to start someone off on B5, I'd definitely want to start with ItB, which sort of skims in and out of the overall storyline in a beautiful fashion.

"I know you probably couldn't have made a movie about the Earth-Minbari War without giving away the ending, but I was kind of hoping the details would be left more vague than they were for the benefit of new viewers."

I came to that part of my decision-making process, and realized that in 2, 5 or 10 years, the secret ain't gonna be secret anymore...so why not play into that, and make the audience aware up front, which adds a different kind of tension, like seeing the bomb under the table when the characters eating dinner don't know it's there.

FaceOfGkar September 12th 09 15:00

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
I suggest just watching the series (seasons 1-5) as is, and then expanding your way into the extended universe. It's a lot easier and the story is a lot "tighter" in that regard.

flobo September 16th 09 13:59

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
I strongly disagree with the fact that sleeping in light must be watched with the rest of season 5. IMO, sleeping in light is an epilogue to the B5 characters and universe and it would ruin the whole experience to actually watch something else after it.

For my first watching, i watched all the way to Objects at Rest (with the movies in right place and in the beginning just after WWE) then lotr, call to arm, crusage, tlt, the books trilogies then finally sleeping in light right after i finished legion of fire.

Legion of fire left like the true end of B5, and then sleeping in light a final goodbye to the show, and i wouldn't recommand it any other way.

Markas September 16th 09 20:32

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 349895)
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 349894)
Good idea, we do get a lot of newbies coming through these days... as a backup you could just create a "viewing order" thread and make it a sticky.

The nice thing about a FAQ area is that it all B5 FAQs would be in one uncrowded area, and we wouldn't be polluting other groups with extra stickies. All B5 FAQs would be in the same place. I think it makes sense.

And to this end, I am pleased to announce that KoshN has been made a moderator for a new B5.FAQ forum that is yet to be created. Look for it in the near future. :thumbsup:

Jan September 17th 09 00:21

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Way to go, KoshN!

Jan

KoshN September 17th 09 01:53

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan (Post 350323)
Way to go, KoshN!

Jan

This is my first post as a Mod.

Thank you, thank you very much! I shall do my best not to go drunk with power. :guffaw: :beer: :dancing:
If I do go drunk with power, I'll be relying on you, Jan, to haul off and smack me one.

Yeah, yeah, I know, don't give away the homeworld.

Jan September 17th 09 02:18

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 350324)
This is my first post as a Mod.

Posting will never be the same again.

Quote:

Thank you, thank you very much! I shall do my best not to go drunk with power. :guffaw: :beer: :dancing:
If I do go drunk with power, I'll be relying on you, Jan, to haul off and smack me one.
You can *always* count on me to take care of that little detail! :lol:

Quote:

Yeah, yeah, I know, don't give away the homeworld.
Drat, you beat me to it! :p

Jan

Markas September 17th 09 19:13

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 350324)

This is my first post as a Mod.

Thank you, thank you very much! I shall do my best not to go drunk with power. :guffaw: :beer: :dancing:
If I do go drunk with power, I'll be relying on you, Jan, to haul off and smack me one.

Yeah, yeah, I know, don't give away the homeworld.

And don't forget, The TentacuEmperor will smack you down with all 6 tentacles if you give away the homeworld. That will NOT be pleasant. ;)

KoshN September 20th 09 15:06

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Markas (Post 350361)
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 350324)

This is my first post as a Mod.

Thank you, thank you very much! I shall do my best not to go drunk with power. :guffaw: :beer: :dancing:
If I do go drunk with power, I'll be relying on you, Jan, to haul off and smack me one.

Yeah, yeah, I know, don't give away the homeworld.

And don't forget, The TentacuEmperor will smack you down with all 6 tentacles if you give away the homeworld. That will NOT be pleasant. ;)

I'd hate to be in a card game with you and Londo. :eek: Better have twelve cold pitchers of beer or ice water around.

Markas September 20th 09 19:47

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Beware, I do not enjoy cold tentacles. :p

Markas September 24th 09 19:35

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
One more obvious move.

Republibot 3.0 November 25th 09 15:29

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
About two years ago, I decided to introduce my older kids to B5, so we sat down and watched all the shows in subjective chronological order (Including putting "Day of the Dead" in its right location in S5), and I have to say it kind of moved me.

Truth be told, I didn't like "Sleeping in Light" at the time. It was too intimate for me, to quiet and close to be following the sturm und drang of the last third of S5, it felt like the show had just run out of steam. Watching it again didn't improve it for me any.

However, watching it after everything else - the show, the movies, Rangers, Crusade, Lost Tales, "Beginning", it picked up a lot of resonance for me, it really moved me. It took me nearly a decade to get what JMS was going for with that episode, but when I finally was able to connect with it, it moved me in ways no other part of the franchise did. It was beautiful, and poignient, and it made me ache for all the cool stuff we were prevented from seeing.

So, of course I vote for watching them in chronological order. <G>

Kara Baxter December 31st 09 10:37

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
my advice would be don't ever watch

"sleeping in light"

cus once you do, the ride is OVER.

KoshN December 31st 09 16:34

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kara Baxter (Post 354574)
my advice would be don't ever watch

"sleeping in light"

cus once you do, the ride is OVER.

You can always get back on the ride. ;)

Jan December 31st 09 22:36

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshN (Post 354587)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kara Baxter (Post 354574)
my advice would be don't ever watch

"sleeping in light"

cus once you do, the ride is OVER.

You can always get back on the ride. ;)

And every time you do, you'll see something you hadn't noticed before.

Tsk...NOT watch "Sleeping in Light"?!? Heresy! ;)

Jan

Kara Baxter January 2nd 10 18:28

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
i actually like the idea of John and Delenn living happily ever after. and b5 going on forever.

not FULL STOP.

watching delenn hug her pillow always makes me cry.

Recoil January 10th 10 19:34

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
KoshN,

I'm sure you have answered this before, but why the change in the Season 1 viewing order? I saw you moved TKO and Legacies to the end of Season 1. Was there a reason for this? I always thought the DVD order was "as it should have been".

KoshN January 11th 10 01:03

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Recoil (Post 355119)
KoshN,

I'm sure you have answered this before, but why the change in the Season 1 viewing order? I saw you moved TKO and Legacies to the end of Season 1. Was there a reason for this? I always thought the DVD order was "as it should have been".

It's just the Master List order on The Lurker's Guide.
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countr...er/eplist.html
...and the justification for that order is given there.

I haven't watched B5 all the way through in years, though not for lack of trying. I've started several times but never make it out of Season 1 There are just too many distractions, work, the need for sleep, other shows (currently watching "Castle" S1 on DVD, "Reaper" S2 on DVD via Netflix, and trying to get caught up with my "Supernatural" Season 5 timer-recorded tapes before it starts back up with new episodes on Jan. 21). I'm just saying that I'm a little rusty on B5 right now, and the reasons for the changes in the order are minor and I can't remember any specifics related to exactly why "TKO" and "Legacies" should air where the Master List has them.

From http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countr...er/eplist.html
"Due to production constraints and other factors, several episodes during the run of the series were delayed, shown later in the sequence than originally intended. The effect isn't major in most cases, but there are minor things that make more sense if the episodes are viewed in the intended order. JMS has given the ordering for seasons one and two his blessing."

Sorry, but without rewatching it all right now, that's the best I can do, and I can practically feel the cellphone getting ready to call me to work, and I still haven't eaten (Zapping something right now.) and no coffee is made. Since Jan. 2nd, about all I do is work, sleep, and get called back out to work, and eat on the fly (when I remember to eat.). Your question is more for someone who is rewatching B5 S1 right now, someone for whom the nuances would be apparent because it's all fresh in their mind.

KoshFan January 11th 10 01:58

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Legacies makes much more sense if it comes after "Babylon Squared," since Delenn uses the triluminary to stun the guards. I don't know of anything pertinent in TKO off the top of my head, though.

Recoil January 11th 10 05:15

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 355125)
Legacies makes much more sense if it comes after "Babylon Squared," since Delenn uses the triluminary to stun the guards. I don't know of anything pertinent in TKO off the top of my head, though.

TKO there is just the reference by Walker Smith for Garabaldi to "watch his back" which of course looms large in Chrysalis. So I guess having it right before Chrysalis makes it easier for people to remember it, instead of about 7 episodes earlier....but its not crucial. In fact, it seems odd to me that Susan's "funeral" for her father would take almost 18 episodes (almost a year in B5 time) to happen. Where TKO was originally placed, it was only about 8-9 episodes, so perhaps a few months --- which is what I think the Rabbi states anyway.

So I sort of think TKO should stay where it is...but I guess it doesnt matter really either way.

The same could be said for Legacies. Its a case of either the Triluminary being first shown in that episode, or in Babylon Squared. Not sure which is better....not sure if it matters.

I guess I'm luke warm on either of them. They are fine where they are, or are fine in the "Master" list.

KoshFan January 11th 10 17:43

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Using the triluminary before she's given it kinda grates on me. I guess I'm just weirdly linear that way...

Recoil January 11th 10 18:36

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Oh, I don't remember when she is "given" it. Perhaps thats why it didnt seem to matter. Which episode is she given the Trilum? I thought she had it the whole time. Guess Ill find out on this watch through...

Kara Baxter January 23rd 10 01:53

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
I think you should watch babylon squared and the other one that goes with it...

XRogue February 12th 10 14:59

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
I just run thru em in the order on the discs. Too lazy to switch em up I guess.

Raw Shark May 5th 10 06:31

Re: What order to see it all in?
 
Kara, I can't agree. One can watch Sleeping In Light, and still live in denial for many years afterward:)

Raw Shark

"Never sneak up on a man who's been in a chemical fire."
Ian McShane, Hot Rod


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