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-   -   Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure? (http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?t=11587)

Republibot 3.0 November 30th 09 21:33

Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?
 
I've noticed that JMS tends to work in 6 and 7 episode chunks. If you notice, his arcs tend to begin or end about 6 or 7 episodes in to a season, or 6 or 7 episodes prior to the end of the season. This makes sense, as logically everything worth happening isn't gonna' *just* happen on New Years Eve.

The "Earth attempts to destabilize B5" arc from S4 got truncated, and the Retake Earth arc got massively accellerated, but JMS has said that season *would* have ended with Sheridan captured. (Or possibly "Intersections in Real Time", I forget.) That implies that we'd have had the first hunk of S5 be the whole rescue and endgame of the war, which, presumably would have ended around episode 5, 6, or 7-ish, if the fifth season had been assured.

This still gives us 2/3rds of the season for setting up the Drakh, the Fall of Centauri Prime, the telepath thread, etc. If you take out all the standalones in S5, the season feels more consistent. If you cut the telepath stuff and the standalones, the last 6 or 7 episodes are freakin' great.

Understand I'm not saying that Standalones are bad, or that I want it to be entirely arc driven, I'm just saying that the season didn't cohere as well as the others did, and some of that is Byron's fault, and some of that is loosing his notes. As an outside observer - and this is not in any way an authorotative opinion - it looks as if, by pushing stuff in to Season 4, season 5 was about a third empty.

I agree Lyta was something of a doormat up to this point, by I still maintain the story would have been better if she was learning how to lead people by herself, you know? Characters change. They change more in B5 than in most shows.

So was anyone ever able to reconstruct some of the stuff that got lost in JMS' notes when he got hacked? Do we know (roughly) what went missing? Any details?

Jan November 30th 09 23:57

Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Republibot 3.0 (Post 353043)
So was anyone ever able to reconstruct some of the stuff that got lost in JMS' notes when he got hacked? Do we know (roughly) what went missing? Any details?

Sadly, what got lost were index cards that he kept his notes on. He had episodes broken down and bits of dialogue written down on the cards. He took them to the UK with him for a convention after getting the Season Five renewal and when the hotel changed his room, the cards got lost or thrown away.

Jan

Jade Jaguar December 1st 09 02:56

Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan (Post 353034)
Here I have to disagree. There's no way the Lyta we saw for most of the series would become a resistance leader without a catalyst and Byron was utterly necessary for that. Face it, even though she was exploring her powers, Lyta was basically a doormat all too much of the time.

Exactly.

I liked Byron as a character. The only problem I have with the teep arc is the behavior of B5 personnel. In general, their behavior was as bad as the behavior of those who helped the Nazis round up Jews in WWII, even when they didn't agree with the Nazis. But, I think that was JMS' point.

dreamer December 1st 09 15:18

Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?
 
I think it was absolutely ridiculous how everyone behave towards Lyta in the fifth season. Couldn't actually almost believe what I was seeing when I watched it for the first time. Makes about as much sense as having Sam in LotR to snatch the One Ring from Frodo and announce himself as Lord of Middle-Earth.

Considering what Lyta went through with the others you'd think that at least someone would call attention to their own behavior. I wish that the teeps would've wiped the floors with the station personnel. Well... except for Zack.

About Winters being Control, I always kinda piled it up with her in the first episode where she strangely and obsessively tries to form some sort of relationship with Ivanova right off the bat. I'm sure she could've just filed the specifics somewhere after the first encounter where she confronted Ivanova at the bridge and introduced herself. But no, she has to rub it in just for the sole reason of establishing Ivanova's character.

KoshFan December 1st 09 18:09

Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamer (Post 353078)
About Winters being Control, I always kinda piled it up with her in the first episode where she strangely and obsessively tries to form some sort of relationship with Ivanova right off the bat.

.... Or she could have been trying to do the good and professional thing by establishing a working relationship with someone she's going to have to work with a lot.

dreamer December 1st 09 19:18

Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 353081)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamer (Post 353078)
About Winters being Control, I always kinda piled it up with her in the first episode where she strangely and obsessively tries to form some sort of relationship with Ivanova right off the bat.

.... Or she could have been trying to do the good and professional thing by establishing a working relationship with someone she's going to have to work with a lot.

No one behaves like that.

Have you relentlessly besieged someone like that when starting in a new job? Doesn't really strike as normal behaviour to me.

But yeah, I suppose that's what it's about. Ain't the first crude thing in B5, though!

Republibot 3.0 December 1st 09 19:22

Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?
 
Re: the index cards.

That totally sucks. I was under the impression that someone hacked his computer, and destroyed files there.

Jan December 1st 09 21:26

Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?
 
There was at least once where he got a Trojan Horse in email but if he lost crucial notes that time I don't think he said anything about it. Sort of adding insult to injury, the weekend his notes were lost was the same weekend he found out about Claudia quitting. To say that Season 5 got off to a rough start would be an understatement.

Jan

Jade Jaguar December 2nd 09 02:32

Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamer (Post 353090)
Quote:

Originally Posted by KoshFan (Post 353081)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamer (Post 353078)
About Winters being Control, I always kinda piled it up with her in the first episode where she strangely and obsessively tries to form some sort of relationship with Ivanova right off the bat.

.... Or she could have been trying to do the good and professional thing by establishing a working relationship with someone she's going to have to work with a lot.

No one behaves like that.

Have you relentlessly besieged someone like that when starting in a new job? Doesn't really strike as normal behaviour to me.

I guess you've never encountered any salesmen, of the sort we have in the US. Psicorp is a separate entity from the command structure of B5. Ivanova was not Talia's superior, but Talia's position made it necessary that she 'sell herself' to Ivanova, whether Ivanova liked it, or not.

A_M_Swallow December 2nd 09 04:37

Re: Does any tv series / book saga / movie saga achieve B5's plot structure?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamer (Post 353078)

About Winters being Control, I always kinda piled it up with her in the first episode where she strangely and obsessively tries to form some sort of relationship with Ivanova right off the bat. I'm sure she could've just filed the specifics somewhere after the first encounter where she confronted Ivanova at the bridge and introduced herself. But no, she has to rub it in just for the sole reason of establishing Ivanova's character.

You do realise those scenes was two lesbians romancing each other?
It was also setting up Psi Corps and written for Lyta.


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