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Axionz January 11th 21 19:27

New To Babylon 5
 
Hi Folks,

Just thought I would post here to get some opinions on the later seasons of Babylon 5, well after season 1 really as I've never actually watched Babylon 5 before.

It's only been the last week or so that I started watching season 1 (and I've instantly fell in love with the story/characters, fantastic!) and I do remember the name from back in the day but never really got round to it, big sci fi fan and star trek mainly Voyager/DS9 so when it came to finding another sci fi space show I remembered Babylon 5 being in the mix. I'm an 80s child so I was still young when this was on TV back then which is why it sort of drifted off the radar for so long.

So I started watching Babylon 5 Season 1 the other week and I'm about to watch the last episode "Chrysalis" and Michael O'hare has completely grown on me so as you can imagine I'm absolutely gutted when I found out online that he only stayed as the commander for Season 1, and unfortunately left due to mental health issues at that time which is such a shame as I've seen some videos when he was attending fan meet ups at London back in 1995 on youtube and he seems like such a nice guy, very charismatic and full of life type of character but then again JMS did say O'hare said the fans kept him going for a long time, so sad.

Ok so sorry for the long winded effort here but I was looking to get some opinions on the seasons after the 1st, losing a lead/key actor like that must have impacted big time for the fans, I can see some posts with people saying the new lead commander fits in nice but still, I think it's gonna be tough moving past O'hare not being there anymore.

Let me know how you felt moving into the later seasons after Michael O'hare left the show.

Thanks,
Steven

Karajorma January 12th 21 01:50

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Glad to see we're still getting new people to watch the show.


As much as I liked Sinclair, Sheridan will always have a very special place in my heart so I feel that the show actually got better after season one. That's not due to the way O'Hare portrayed Sinclair in any way of course.

Springer January 12th 21 10:50

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
A child of the 80s here too – B5 made such a huge impact on me growing up as a teenager, it helped frame who I became as an adult and remains my favourite TV series ever.

I too really enjoyed Michael O'Hare's performance, but Bruce Boxleitner does a fantastic job playing Captain Sheridan from season 2 onwards. In fact, I think it's fair to say that seasons 2, 3 and 4 are the favourites among the fandom. Boxleitner starts off all smiles, deliberately playing to type at first, so that when his character evolves it gives him room to grow into the performance. I think Sheridan has a better rapport with some of the other characters too, like Delenn and Ivanova, so his presence helps make the other characters better too.

Besides, what makes you think you've seen the last of Sinclair...?

PS. welcome to the boards! Please do let us know what you think of Sheridan when you start watching season 2, and what you think of the show as you progress through it!

Looney January 12th 21 16:32

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Hello Axionz,

From here on you are getting into the real heart of the series.

My personal experience is thus, Through some jogging of memory I recalled seeing some if not all of THE GATHERING when it aired and some scattered Season One episodes, but this was the time I was transitioning from High School to College so I had other things on my mind. My REAL obsession with B5 didn't start until Boxleitner joined in Season Two. From there on I was hooked. And let me tell you, being hooked was no easy task. At that time there was no way to go back and watch Season One and watching what was available was very difficult where I lived because the show jumped all over the TV schedule. It was never consistently on the same channel at the same time every week. But B5 made me the Science Fiction fan I am today. I liked SciFi before B5, but Season Two coming at a critical time in my education helped structure the adult I am today. (It is everything other than B5 that screwed me up. :wtf: :rolleyes: :lol:)

Later when the show started appearing on VHS and then reruns I was able to see Season One and fall in love with Sinclair. Consider this Axionz, O'Hare left the show after Season One, 1994, and fans didn't find out the real reason behind his departure until after he passed away in 2012. Just imagine getting that revelation about a show you'd been in love with for almost twenty years. In the end you'll find that just because he leaves after Season One doesn't mean Sinclair didn't add to the overall wonder that is the Babylon 5 story arc. Sinclair / O'Hare is a critical part of the Babylon 5 Universe and we were all very lucky to have one full season with him. We'll never know how the show might have gone had he stayed, but everyone here knows the show did not go downhill after his departure. That is not a slight on him. It is a compliment to those whom continued on after he moved on. It is a testament to a team making the show go in a direction that salvaged what was lost by his absence. (And maybe JMS helped. :p)

Glad you found us Axionz. Can't wait to read more of your thoughts on Babylon 5. :thumbsup:

Axionz January 13th 21 23:12

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Springer (Post 463872)
A child of the 80s here too – B5 made such a huge impact on me growing up as a teenager, it helped frame who I became as an adult and remains my favourite TV series ever.

I too really enjoyed Michael O'Hare's performance, but Bruce Boxleitner does a fantastic job playing Captain Sheridan from season 2 onwards. In fact, I think it's fair to say that seasons 2, 3 and 4 are the favourites among the fandom. Boxleitner starts off all smiles, deliberately playing to type at first, so that when his character evolves it gives him room to grow into the performance. I think Sheridan has a better rapport with some of the other characters too, like Delenn and Ivanova, so his presence helps make the other characters better too.

Besides, what makes you think you've seen the last of Sinclair...?

PS. welcome to the boards! Please do let us know what you think of Sheridan when you start watching season 2, and what you think of the show as you progress through it!

Thanks and yeh I just watched Season 2 Episode 9 The Coming of Shadows which as you know has a nice cameo of Michael O'Hare as ambassador!

I am enjoying Season 2 so far and Sheridan seems to be fitting in quite well but I still do feel like there is a bit of a void with Michael O'Hare gone and even having his Intro replaced for Season 2 is just different, takes a bit of getting use to and I definitely miss his voice on that Intro, it's just stellar.

It still feels fresh to me with Sinclair being gone after a full season with him as the lead, maybe moving onto season 3 that may fade slightly as I do really enjoy all the characters in Babylon 5 so far, loving it!



Quote:

Originally Posted by Looney (Post 463873)
Hello Axionz,

From here on you are getting into the real heart of the series.

My personal experience is thus, Through some jogging of memory I recalled seeing some if not all of THE GATHERING when it aired and some scattered Season One episodes, but this was the time I was transitioning from High School to College so I had other things on my mind. My REAL obsession with B5 didn't start until Boxleitner joined in Season Two. From there on I was hooked. And let me tell you, being hooked was no easy task. At that time there was no way to go back and watch Season One and watching what was available was very difficult where I lived because the show jumped all over the TV schedule. It was never consistently on the same channel at the same time every week. But B5 made me the Science Fiction fan I am today. I liked SciFi before B5, but Season Two coming at a critical time in my education helped structure the adult I am today. (It is everything other than B5 that screwed me up. :wtf: :rolleyes: :lol:)

Later when the show started appearing on VHS and then reruns I was able to see Season One and fall in love with Sinclair. Consider this Axionz, O'Hare left the show after Season One, 1994, and fans didn't find out the real reason behind his departure until after he passed away in 2012. Just imagine getting that revelation about a show you'd been in love with for almost twenty years. In the end you'll find that just because he leaves after Season One doesn't mean Sinclair didn't add to the overall wonder that is the Babylon 5 story arc. Sinclair / O'Hare is a critical part of the Babylon 5 Universe and we were all very lucky to have one full season with him. We'll never know how the show might have gone had he stayed, but everyone here knows the show did not go downhill after his departure. That is not a slight on him. It is a compliment to those whom continued on after he moved on. It is a testament to a team making the show go in a direction that salvaged what was lost by his absence. (And maybe JMS helped. :p)

Glad you found us Axionz. Can't wait to read more of your thoughts on Babylon 5. :thumbsup:

Hi Mate,

For sure watching it back then with no solid schedule and no way to catch a missed episode would have been such a nightmare and very gutting! And yes that would have been terrible for the fans back then with O'Hare being the lead for an entire season and then just gone out the blue with no response as to why.... and it wasn't just any season it was the season to set it all off really and start the character building and story arcs, so he's heavily missed I feel.

Like I mentioned above when replying to Springer, having O'Hare gone is still pretty tough to accept when you build up that character connection from a show like this and then all of a sudden such an important key character is just completely taken out, although it was very nice to see the short cameo role in season 2 episode 9 which I just watched! Even hearing O'Hare's voice in that episode instantly brought a smile to my face especially when we all know what really happened with him and why he had to give it all up, such a damn shame and JMS did mention he fought like hell to make sure Season 1 got finished not only for the fans but for the entire show and so no one would lose their jobs, just such a sad thing to happen but speaks volumes about Michael O'Hare as a person and how he really was.

I have read online that O'Hare does come back in for 2 episodes or so later on to basically finish off his story arc so I'm always thinking about that and when that's going to happen lol, I try not to read too much so I don't spoil anything in terms of character plot/story, but cannot wait for O'Hare to at least be back in for a couple of episodes as I just completely fell in love with Season 1 and his character, so will see how it goes!

It's such a strange feeling when watching it, almost like I'm jumping back in time to the early 90s lol, a completely different world back then and they just don't make TV shows like that anymore these days, even the actual episode count from back then on shows they were always very high, reaching around 18-25 episodes per season but these days the shows don't even push past 10 episodes in some cases and they're not as long either, just a totally different work ethic now in today's soft world.

Karajorma January 14th 21 01:43

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Oh you will absolutely love those two episodes.

Looney January 17th 21 15:14

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Soooo any updates? How far have you made it? :)


And yes it was a completely different world. I enjoy how people get a little dose of that reality with shows like THE MANDALORIAN. I know Disney Plus spaces out releasing the episodes so you can't just get a free month subscription and see the whole thing when it is released, but that tactic does let people know a little of how it once was when it came to watching shows you love. No binge watching. You just had to wait week to week. Think of the chaos that would explode the world if it went back to that now. The show is on this week and if you miss the episode you might NEVER see it again. Re-Runs were never a guarantee. I mean they were sometimes around the original air date, but a couple of years later you couldn't just say, "I'd like to see this show again." and go find it on the internet or physical media. You just had to hope some day it would air again. :wtf:

Axionz January 20th 21 17:40

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Looney (Post 463889)
Soooo any updates? How far have you made it? :)


And yes it was a completely different world. I enjoy how people get a little dose of that reality with shows like THE MANDALORIAN. I know Disney Plus spaces out releasing the episodes so you can't just get a free month subscription and see the whole thing when it is released, but that tactic does let people know a little of how it once was when it came to watching shows you love. No binge watching. You just had to wait week to week. Think of the chaos that would explode the world if it went back to that now. The show is on this week and if you miss the episode you might NEVER see it again. Re-Runs were never a guarantee. I mean they were sometimes around the original air date, but a couple of years later you couldn't just say, "I'd like to see this show again." and go find it on the internet or physical media. You just had to hope some day it would air again. :wtf:


Haha I'm on Season 2 Episode 16, been taking my time with it so I don't rush it too much and it's done too fast lol! I hate it when something is good then it's just done because I binge it like crazy! But sometimes it cannot be helped :)

Looney January 21st 21 17:32

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axionz (Post 463896)


Haha I'm on Season 2 Episode 16, been taking my time with it so I don't rush it too much and it's done too fast lol! I hate it when something is good then it's just done because I binge it like crazy! But sometimes it cannot be helped :)

That is exactly how I do it. When you rush to get through it you risk missing details. I recall watching a season of Game of Thrones many years ago on Blu-Ray. I rushed through it in a few days. Then a couple of years later I watched it with someone at a MUCH slower pace. There was an entire episode I didn't recall seeing the first time around. When a show is good I want to try to take my time and savor it. I want to make it last as long as possible because if it is a current show I know it will be at least a year until I see it again, if it comes back. If it is an older show I know when I am through it that is it. One big one I am savoring right now is Poirot with David Suchet.

vacantlook January 22nd 21 16:52

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Please feel free to post your thoughts as you proceed through your watching of the series. B5 fans tend to enjoy being able to vicariously relive the first time viewing experience.

Personally, I think Sinclair and Sheridan are very different energies. I think I might have preferred Sheridan back in the days that the show was new and ongoing, but in the years since, I've come to prefer Sinclair. That doesn't mean that I don't still enjoy Sheridan as a character, but I think if I were to aspire toward either of them, I would more want to be like Sinclair.

Markas January 22nd 21 17:37

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Welcome here and I am glad you found this place.

I will suggest one thing though, don't do too much advance research on the series. It is better letting all of the moments reveal themselves. Some surprises should be...surprises. ;)

Springer January 22nd 21 19:25

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vacantlook (Post 463913)
Personally, I think Sinclair and Sheridan are very different energies. I think I might have preferred Sheridan back in the days that the show was new and ongoing, but in the years since, I've come to prefer Sinclair. That doesn't mean that I don't still enjoy Sheridan as a character, but I think if I were to aspire toward either of them, I would more want to be like Sinclair.

Just wanted to say how much I relate to this. Sinclair was tough (he beat Neroon up!) but spiritual; he sought wisdom and was a thinker, but was never afraid to act and do the right thing; he was an excellent diplomat even when he probably felt like punching someone. And he liked Tennyson! I think Sinclair had a lot of gravitas and Sheridan had a lot of charisma. Being British, I do tend to sway more toward the stiff upper lip thing that Sinclair had going on!

Ultimately I like both Sheridan and Sinclair for different reasons, but I identify more with Sinclair.

Markas January 22nd 21 19:47

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Springer (Post 463917)

Ultimately I like both Sheridan and Sinclair for different reasons, but I identify more with Sinclair.

I completely agree here. Two different characters needed at the times they were in command.

Axionz January 23rd 21 00:27

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vacantlook (Post 463913)
Please feel free to post your thoughts as you proceed through your watching of the series. B5 fans tend to enjoy being able to vicariously relive the first time viewing experience.

Personally, I think Sinclair and Sheridan are very different energies. I think I might have preferred Sheridan back in the days that the show was new and ongoing, but in the years since, I've come to prefer Sinclair. That doesn't mean that I don't still enjoy Sheridan as a character, but I think if I were to aspire toward either of them, I would more want to be like Sinclair.

Will do! I'm actually about to watch Season 2 Episode 19 and it's getting really interesting regarding the Shadow enemies that use to rule hundreds of years ago, loving that story so far.

Yeh I loved Michael O'Hare as Sinclair I just felt like he was such a powerful presence on screen as the commander, like holding true to that sort of strong military mindset that a long time veteran war commander would have had with being through such a big war in the past against another race that basically took you right to the brink of extinction.

He was an absolute marvel in my opinion by making the viewers feel that sort of presence through screen, his voice is also epic and should 100% still be the main intro. I sort of get the vibe that back then when he was actually doing it some people didn't take to him very well with regards to his performance but like O'hare said himself many years later (like late 2000s) it was as if over time everyone understood what I was doing with the character and he quickly became a favorite. I'm glad he was alive when that happened and he seen that his character actually became one of the most important characters in the history of the show and he knew from the fans they missed his presence greatly.

I like Sheridan more as each episode passes, he fits in quite well and it's going good but I would have absolutely loved to have seen O'Hare as the commander all the way through, a damn shame what he went through back then and no one had any idea the pain he was suffering.

He was a legend and what was his medal as commander? something like, "For those that held the line". He certainty done that by fighting through to make sure Season 1 was finished and no one lost their jobs from the show potentially getting cancelled if he dropped out early, RIP Michael O'hare and for winning that fight.

Axionz January 23rd 21 00:30

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Markas (Post 463915)
Welcome here and I am glad you found this place.

I will suggest one thing though, don't do too much advance research on the series. It is better letting all of the moments reveal themselves. Some surprises should be...surprises. ;)

Hi and thanks!

Yeh I'm not looking up anything really, I've just seen some interviews with the cast long after the show was complete and hearing about their experience etc, but making sure I'm not seeing anything to do with the story so I have no idea when watching :)

Axionz January 31st 21 14:28

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Hey all,

I just watched Season 3 Episode 10 (Severed Dreams) and it was an absolutely epic episode!!!! It was actually so exciting to watch haha and the story/character depth keeps evolving and getting better and better!

Really enjoying it so far, it still feels so strange to think this was from the 90s and seeing all the actors being fairly young in the show and then seeing them today is also super strange and throws you off a bit almost like jumping back and forward in time if that makes any sense lol. Just such a strange feeling seeing the cast today because I know them as their younger versions and then boom 30 years later today seeing them much older, anyone else get the feeling I'm talking about lol?

I literally just seen online that Mira Furlan passed away on the 20th of this month :( god rest her soul such a shame another one of the cast has passed away far too early.

This is actually so gutting man :(

Karajorma February 1st 21 00:28

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Ah, Severed Dreams, one of my favourite episodes of the show without a doubt.



As for seeing actors differently now, have you seen Walter Koenig in anything since starting? Cause for me I've stopped seeing Checkov, and started seeing Bester.

Looney February 1st 21 04:56

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karajorma (Post 463964)
Ah, Severed Dreams, one of my favourite episodes of the show without a doubt.



As for seeing actors differently now, have you seen Walter Koenig in anything since starting? Cause for me I've stopped seeing Checkov, and started seeing Bester.

I want to watch SEVERED DREAMS right now.

I often go on and on about how BESTER is one of, at least, the Top 5 Villains of all time. I would love to make the claim of Top Villain of all time, but I don't have an all seeing eye that can show me every fictional villain of all time. I REALLY wish I had that all seeing eye to prove a theory with regard to Bester being the type of villain Bester is and him being the first such villain in TV history, but again I don't possess that ability. :rolleyes:

Axionz February 7th 21 17:35

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Hey all, how you all doing?

That's me just finished Season 4 today so now moving onto Season 5! I'm absolutely loving it and ended up binge watching all of season 3 & 4 lol, couldn't peel myself away from it haha... and yes you do completely start to love Sheridan as a character and how he progresses throughout those seasons.

I was looking up some "watching order" suggestions as some say watch "In The Beginning" after season 4 but as this is set 5 years before Season 1 so Delenn is her old self etc then I don't think it would really matter at this point would it? Based on that I think I will just watch Season 5 first then after that watch some of the movies, I have seen The Gathering already as I watched that right off the bat before Season 1.

So here I am....at the 5th season and that gutting feeling is starting to appear because I know this will be the last season and being 30 years on pretty much there's no chance at all for anymore episodes and of course with a good portion of the cast passing away too early and the ones still alive are much too old to play how they were 30 years ago lol, just sucks man, something as good and as rich in character/story as Babylon 5 you just don't want it to end, ever!

I'm sure I've mentioned this before but it feels sooooo strange sometimes when you watch these episodes and you see all these great actors when they were all in their early/mid 30s still looking fresh and young then you look online and it's as if you've went through a time jump by 30 years and looking at them all when they're in their 60s.... Just feels so odd like they shouldn't be that age, they should still be how I know them sort of thing lol, anyone get what I'm talking about?

Hope you're all doing well!

Looney February 8th 21 00:50

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axionz (Post 463983)

I'm sure I've mentioned this before but it feels sooooo strange sometimes when you watch these episodes and you see all these great actors when they were all in their early/mid 30s still looking fresh and young then you look online and it's as if you've went through a time jump by 30 years and looking at them all when they're in their 60s.... Just feels so odd like they shouldn't be that age, they should still be how I know them sort of thing lol, anyone get what I'm talking about?

Yes I totally understand what you mean. And I completely understand your desire to binge. Once you get rolling through Season Two it makes it difficult to take a break because you just want to see what is coming next.

As far as the movies go you are perfectly fine watching them toward the end of Season 5. I recommend stopping Season 5 after OBJECTS AT REST, 5.21. Save 5.22 SLEEPING IN LIGHT until you have watched everything else, all movies CRUSADE, LEGEND OF THE RANGERS, and THE LOST TALES. TRUST ME. You will thank me. It will be VERY difficult. You will want to watch it so bad after you see OBJECTS AT REST, 5.21, but don't give in.
SLEEPING IN LIGHT is the absolute last thing Babylon 5 related you should watch. It is the end.

Jan February 8th 21 01:27

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Looney (Post 463984)
I recommend stopping Season 5 after OBJECTS AT REST, 5.21. Save 5.22 SLEEPING IN LIGHT until you have watched everything else, all movies CRUSADE, LEGEND OF THE RANGERS, and THE LOST TALES. TRUST ME. You will thank me. It will be VERY difficult. You will want to watch it so bad after you see OBJECTS AT REST, 5.21, but don't give in.
SLEEPING IN LIGHT is the absolute last thing Babylon 5 related you should watch. It is the end.

On a first viewing??? Looney, what's the matter with you telling somebody to break up the emotional impact of the final three episodes???? NO NO NO NO!!! I forbid it! On subsequent viewings they can go to the trouble (I'm not really sure why) of doing the chronology route but certainly not the first! Sheesh!! :o:o:o:o:o

Looney February 8th 21 18:53

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan (Post 463985)
On a first viewing??? Looney, what's the matter with you telling somebody to break up the emotional impact of the final three episodes????

I guess if I were going to pinpoint what is the matter with me under these circumstances I would say it is that I am a GENIUS. :angel:


(Axionz don't read this spoiler. It is really only meant for Jan.)

Spoiler for spoiler:

Yes there is emotional impact of the end of the series, but then there is emotional impact of the end of the SAGA. I can't think of any SAGA that comes to a better ending than SLEEPING IN LIGHT. And SLEEPING IN LIGHT is soooooooooooo far superior to everything that followed it is the best way to close the novel on a satisfying note.


OOOOOOO now Axionz is going to have to make a decision. Either way is win / win so it isn't much of a choice. The ONLY reason one might slightly lean Jan's direction is that it could take awhile to get access to and watch all the movies, CRUSADE, LEGEND OF THE RANGERS, and THE LOST TALES.

And OBTW Axionz, good luck choosing a viewing order for CRUSADE. :guffaw:

Axionz February 8th 21 20:42

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Looney (Post 463989)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan (Post 463985)
On a first viewing??? Looney, what's the matter with you telling somebody to break up the emotional impact of the final three episodes????

I guess if I were going to pinpoint what is the matter with me under these circumstances I would say it is that I am a GENIUS. :angel:


(Axionz don't read this spoiler. It is really only meant for Jan.)

Spoiler for spoiler:

Yes there is emotional impact of the end of the series, but then there is emotional impact of the end of the SAGA. I can't think of any SAGA that comes to a better ending than SLEEPING IN LIGHT. And SLEEPING IN LIGHT is soooooooooooo far superior to everything that followed it is the best way to close the novel on a satisfying note.


OOOOOOO now Axionz is going to have to make a decision. Either way is win / win so it isn't much of a choice. The ONLY reason one might slightly lean Jan's direction is that it could take awhile to get access to and watch all the movies, CRUSADE, LEGEND OF THE RANGERS, and THE LOST TALES.

And OBTW Axionz, good luck choosing a viewing order for CRUSADE. :guffaw:


Yes this will now be a tough decision, my original plan was to watch through all of season 5 then check out the movies but now I'm stuck haha!

Btw I just noticed Crusade is an actual spin off series from Babylon 5!? from what I can see a completely different cast, I wonder why it only ran 1 season? Reviews for it are showing as very good as well.

I just watched Season 5 episode 4 A View From The Gallery, the point of view from 2 technicians that dart about the Babylon 5 station doing their job fixing stuff haha, that was actually a fantastic episode!

Looney February 8th 21 22:01

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axionz (Post 463990)

I just watched Season 5 episode 4 A View From The Gallery, the point of view from 2 technicians that dart about the Babylon 5 station doing their job fixing stuff haha, that was actually a fantastic episode!

HA!!!!! SEE TOLDJA EVERYBODY!!!!! :guffaw: :guffaw: :guffaw:

A VIEW FROM THE GALLERY is a very .... ummmm how should I say this.... debated episode. I personally think it is a BRILLIANT concept that has some weakness in the execution. (And truth be told I think all of them are brilliant concepts. ;)) You will find others out there with a large dislike for A VIEW FROM THE GALLERY. Actually not many I can think of prowling around here, but those other internet places you might get some debate. My "TOLDJA" comment was more directed at the Universe than anyone in particular. :lol:

Jan February 9th 21 14:05

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axionz (Post 463990)
Yes this will now be a tough decision, my original plan was to watch through all of season 5 then check out the movies but now I'm stuck haha!

Trust me on this one. You'll be watching the show numerous times after this (well, most people do) and you can play with all sorts of orders then. But for this first time, go with the order it was shown in the first time. Because that's the order that JMS knew we'd see it in and so that's how he was writing for the effect he wanted us to have.

Quote:

Btw I just noticed Crusade is an actual spin off series from Babylon 5!? from what I can see a completely different cast, I wonder why it only ran 1 season? Reviews for it are showing as very good as well.
The short version is that TNT resucued the Babylon 5 show when it was cancelled after the network carrying it collapsed. That was an existing show so they left JMS alone to do as he pleased. So Season 5 ran and the reruns were running and, like any TV network, they kept an eye on viewership. Turns out that they found that the core TNT audience would click off when B5 came on and the B5 audience would click off when B5 went off. So no increase in viewership. BUT they'd already contracted for Crusade. After getting those results, they decided to get out of the contract 'by any means necessary' and gave JMS egregious notes for what they wanted him to do with the show (more later after you've seen it). Eventually JMS said NO and so the show was killed halfway into filming the first season, months before it ever aired.

Quote:

I just watched Season 5 episode 4 A View From The Gallery, the point of view from 2 technicians that dart about the Babylon 5 station doing their job fixing stuff haha, that was actually a fantastic episode!
I enjoyed that one a lot. But I usually like the off-format episodes a lot. As Looney says, opinions on this one are split very often. I loved the chemistry between Mac and Bo.

Karajorma February 10th 21 07:58

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Yeah. I loved A View From The Gallery for the same reasons that I thought And Now For A Word or Intersections In Real Time were brilliant too.



The whole premise of B5 (a single, ongoing story told over the course of 5 years) was something completely new in its day. But the crew weren't going to stop there, "Let's do something different" was the way they approached a lot of things.

Looney February 10th 21 17:49

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karajorma (Post 463996)
Yeah. I loved A View From The Gallery for the same reasons that I thought And Now For A Word or Intersections In Real Time were brilliant too.

Actually I need some clarification here because I'm not sure how those three episodes relate to each other, so I'm not sure why you love them for similar reasons? Is it because you are getting an outsiders view? Just a bit confused on the reasoning here. Also I would throw THE ILLUSION OF TRUTH 4.8 into any conversation where AND NOW FOR A WORD 2.15 gets mentioned, but that is just a personal preference. :lol: ;)

Springer February 10th 21 21:03

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Not that anyone does ask me, but if anyone did, I'd recommend And Now For A Word as a good introduction to the series, it gives the viewer a good overview of all the characters, the station, and the circumstances.

It may be sacrilege to say this, but I find Intersections in Real Time a bit dull. I rarely re-watch it.

The Illusion of Truth feels a bit forced to me. Stuff like "Nothing in the Universe can stop us" felt completely unnatural things to say. Though I did appreciate the concept of showing how things can be taken out of context. Nowadays they'd just deep-fake it.

A View From the Gallery... yeah, not my cup of tea, but I understand why people like it.

The other off-format episode I can think of is The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari, which I think is very underrated, but it's one of the best episodes of season 5.

By the way, just want to say how much I'm enjoying reading Axionz thoughts about viewing the show for the first time. There's also been a lot of first-timers posting on Twitter after watching on HBOMax, and it's a joy to read.

Karajorma February 11th 21 06:24

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Looney (Post 463997)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karajorma (Post 463996)
Yeah. I loved A View From The Gallery for the same reasons that I thought And Now For A Word or Intersections In Real Time were brilliant too.

Actually I need some clarification here because I'm not sure how those three episodes relate to each other, so I'm not sure why you love them for similar reasons? Is it because you are getting an outsiders view? Just a bit confused on the reasoning here. Also I would throw THE ILLUSION OF TRUTH 4.8 into any conversation where AND NOW FOR A WORD 2.15 gets mentioned, but that is just a personal preference. :lol: ;)


Those are episodes that did something different. Either we see things from the point of view of two minor characters, or as a news report rather than as an episode. Or as a single room drama.



Babylon 5 did a lot of things differently from other shows. They liked to play with the idea of what their show even is. Deconstruction of Falling Stars is again another example of something I don't think I've ever seen in any other show (Except for the totally ham-fisted way that Star Trek Enterprise handled it in their final episode).

Ubik February 11th 21 08:23

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
I totally agree with Jan here. Watch S5 in the intended (airing) order. Don't worry about the films, spins offs, etc for now.

IMHO most of the TV Movies are pretty bad and only In the Beginning really stands up as excellent. They're like a fun little bonus if you find yourself craving more (and you will!)

Crusade is a bit of a curiosity. I've seen it from start to finish three times, and on my third viewing, I came down very heavily on the side that it shouldn't have been made. It just felt cheap and derivative to me, with rare moments of quality. BUT, that's just me. Check it out once you are done with B5 proper. Everything after the original show is diminishing returns, but it's cool there are extra things here and there to watch.

Enjoy the final stretch! Whilst S5 is a bit up and down in terms of quality, it has some superb moments and B5 has one of the best finales.

Axionz February 13th 21 11:20

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Springer (Post 463999)
Not that anyone does ask me, but if anyone did, I'd recommend And Now For A Word as a good introduction to the series, it gives the viewer a good overview of all the characters, the station, and the circumstances.

It may be sacrilege to say this, but I find Intersections in Real Time a bit dull. I rarely re-watch it.

The Illusion of Truth feels a bit forced to me. Stuff like "Nothing in the Universe can stop us" felt completely unnatural things to say. Though I did appreciate the concept of showing how things can be taken out of context. Nowadays they'd just deep-fake it.

A View From the Gallery... yeah, not my cup of tea, but I understand why people like it.

The other off-format episode I can think of is The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari, which I think is very underrated, but it's one of the best episodes of season 5.

By the way, just want to say how much I'm enjoying reading Axionz thoughts about viewing the show for the first time. There's also been a lot of first-timers posting on Twitter after watching on HBOMax, and it's a joy to read.

It's always great when you find a hidden gem like this but it always get terribly sad when approaching the final season, and you know there will be no more episodes or even the possibility of seeing these characters again.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubik (Post 464004)
I totally agree with Jan here. Watch S5 in the intended (airing) order. Don't worry about the films, spins offs, etc for now.

IMHO most of the TV Movies are pretty bad and only In the Beginning really stands up as excellent. They're like a fun little bonus if you find yourself craving more (and you will!)

Crusade is a bit of a curiosity. I've seen it from start to finish three times, and on my third viewing, I came down very heavily on the side that it shouldn't have been made. It just felt cheap and derivative to me, with rare moments of quality. BUT, that's just me. Check it out once you are done with B5 proper. Everything after the original show is diminishing returns, but it's cool there are extra things here and there to watch.

Enjoy the final stretch! Whilst S5 is a bit up and down in terms of quality, it has some superb moments and B5 has one of the best finales.


Yeh I'm just watching through season 5 and I'm on episode 6 - Strange Relations. I've really slowed it down so I can enjoy the last season even more instead of binge watching it all and then I have no more Babylon 5 really lol.

A few things I will say about season 5 so far is that I much prefer Sheridan as the captain, really end up missing him being in that role and it just feels different that he's moved to a president role and taking on a new look, the beard and uniform just feels so strange as if the whole idea was to move Sheridan away from the command structure, that sort of military vibe which I loved about his character.

Garibaldi as well, miss him being in his main security chief role as it just starts to feel like a huge change as if the writer/directors were trying to distance the main characters a bit around that time, like not make them the prime focus anymore? Dunno it just feels strange lol, and I wasn't a big fan of Garibaldi being rogue when his mind got altered by Bester, I just loved that sort of Garibaldi, Sheridan, Ivanova trio. So when Garibaldi was mind altered it completely changed the dynamic of the show I thought and he never got much time on the episodes during that time frame either I don't think.

The last point would of course be not having Ivanova anymore which again just adds to that feeling mentioned above, as if the main cast have changed big time with their roles and sort of moving off the spot light a bit. I'm assuming Ivanova doesn't come back in as I think I read somewhere that she wanted more focus or a bit of a change up with her character and michael straczynski did not agree and wanted to keep her as is on the show?

Anyway it all feels very different in season 5 with so many changes and with the Shadow plot done and dusted and no more Vorlon's it sort of feels like the mystery has been removed, the Shadows were an absolutely AMAZING story and not knowing much about them made it even more interesting and just captures you when watching. The Vorlon's as well added to that mystery throughout especially when you learn that both the Vorlon's and the Shadows are linked, stellar story line for those.

With all these changes in both story and characters it makes me want to be back in Season3/4 lol.

Hope you're all doing good and enjoying the weekend!

Looney February 15th 21 22:08

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Et tu, Ubik? :p

But like I said, it is a win, win either way you choose to watch it.

For the record I rank the movies as thus.....

IN THE BEGINNING
A CALL TO ARMS
THIRDSPACE
RIVER OF SOULS

I don't really count THE GATHERING as one of the movies because it is the pilot and was made with different intentions than the made-for-TV movies. I feel LEGEND OF THE RANGERS TO LIVE AND DIE IN STARLIGHT also falls into a different category and I don't really compare it to the above.

Anyone want to mess with the movie viewing order? :)

Karajorma February 17th 21 05:36

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Thirdspace goes in the middle of season 4. It's referenced in later episodes so it needs to go there. The others go after season 5.



You've forgotten Legend of the Rangers and Lost Tales though.

Looney February 17th 21 16:27

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karajorma (Post 464028)
You've forgotten Legend of the Rangers and Lost Tales though.

Are you talking to me? I mentioned Legend of The Rangers, but I did forget to mention that I do not consider THE LOST TALES to be a movie. It is episodes of a two episode spin-off series. :thumbsup:

Springer February 18th 21 14:15

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
I quite like all the movies, even River of Souls for all its faults, it's always fun watching Ian McShane and Martin Sheen. Think Thirdspace and A Call to Arms are my favourites, In The Beginning always felt to me like it needed a bigger budget, and it was a shame Michael O'Hare couldn't come back - what happens to Sinclair at the Battle of the Line just feels tacked on at the end, I think it would have worked better if Sinclair had been present earlier in the movie.

Axionz - don't worry about the ordering of the movies, they are made to be watched out of order, and the chronological ordering of Thirdspace always seems to cause debate among fans anyway :-) Just enjoy through to the end of season 5.

deaded February 19th 21 06:22

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
[QUOTE=Axionz;464016]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Springer (Post 463999)
With all these changes in both story and characters it makes me want to be back in Season3/4 lol.

Yeah, the first four seasons were some of the best TV we've ever been given. Season five is not the one to savor. BUT, the good news is that when you go back and watch it again you are going to find SO MUCH great stuff that you missed before! I must have watched the series 10 times, probably more. Each time I appreciate something new (maybe I'm just not very observant).

I still love it and put it on when I want to be cheered up. It's like comfort food for me.

Looney February 21st 21 22:00

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deaded (Post 464049)
BUT, the good news is that when you go back and watch it again you are going to find SO MUCH great stuff that you missed before! I must have watched the series 10 times, probably more. Each time I appreciate something new (maybe I'm just not very observant).

I still love it and put it on when I want to be cheered up. It's like comfort food for me.

I could not have said it better myself.

Ubik February 22nd 21 11:56

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
[QUOTE=deaded;464049]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axionz (Post 464016)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Springer (Post 463999)
With all these changes in both story and characters it makes me want to be back in Season3/4 lol.

Yeah, the first four seasons were some of the best TV we've ever been given. Season five is not the one to savor. BUT, the good news is that when you go back and watch it again you are going to find SO MUCH great stuff that you missed before! I must have watched the series 10 times, probably more. Each time I appreciate something new (maybe I'm just not very observant).

I still love it and put it on when I want to be cheered up. It's like comfort food for me.

Yeah, THIS. Season 1 on a re-watch has so many 'ahhhh' moments of foreshadowing. My first proper re-watch really made me appreciate just how well Season 1 is structured. Sure, there are a few clunkers (Infection, Eyes, etc...) but there's so much good groundwork. I had always seen Season 1 as rather weak, but subsequent re-watches have totally changed my opinion. Same for Sinclair / O'Hare, I really grew to appreciate the character / actor.

Karajorma February 24th 21 04:23

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
I definitely agree that S1 improves more than any other season on rewatch.

hypatia February 25th 21 03:20

Re: New To Babylon 5
 
Yes, I was woefully unappreciative of season 1 the first time I saw it. I saw it again , and it really impressed me. It took me a bit before I got into the style.


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